Discussion:
Is Evolution a great app to use? Any advice on making switch from mutt?...
(too old to reply)
seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
2005-01-19 17:06:49 UTC
Permalink
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.

IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right?? Plus, It can setup MAILDIR
format I've been meaning to use instead of mbox for months.

The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect
or else I may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app
transitions easier too???

Chris
--
_______________________________________

Christian Seberino, Ph.D.
SPAWAR Systems Center San Diego
Code 2872
49258 Mills Street, Room 158
San Diego, CA 92152-5385
U.S.A.

Phone: (619) 553-9973
Fax : (619) 553-6521
Email: ***@spawar.navy.mil
_______________________________________
John H. Robinson, IV
2005-01-19 17:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.
well, SOME people might argue against GUI means better (i'm one of them).
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right??
*shwug* never used it. it would be hell over an ssh link, plus it
would not work over screen all that well. so much for all that 21st
century goodness . . .
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
Plus, It can setup MAILDIR format I've been meaning to use instead of
mbox for months.
mutt has been able to do that for years now.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect or else I
may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app transitions easier
too???
not really. the MUA is almost entirely transparent to your mailbox.
the differenceses lie in when the MUA is a pop/imap client and stores
the mail in its own private or proprietary format. that is when you
lose mail.

since you have been using mutt, all your archives are in mbox, MMDF, MH
or Maildir format. all of these are entirely open formats. evolution
should be able to read them, especially mbox and Maildir.

if you transition TO evolution, and it does freaky things, then you
might lose archives when you go back to your 22nd century MUA
(available NOW at an ftp site near you!). but you should lose no
INCOMING mail whatsoever.

enjoy!

and, whichever way it works out, feel free to share with the group your
experiences, both good and bad.

-john
Neil Schneider
2005-01-19 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by John H. Robinson, IV
since you have been using mutt, all your archives are in mbox, MMDF, MH
or Maildir format. all of these are entirely open formats. evolution
should be able to read them, especially mbox and Maildir.
Or none of the above. I use mutt and my mail is kept on a cyrus-imap
server which doesn't use any of these formats.
--
Neil Schneider pacneil_at_linuxgeek_dot_net
http://www.paccomp.com
Key fingerprint = 67F0 E493 FCC0 0A8C 769B 8209 32D7 1DB1 8460 C47D

... the flaw that makes perfection perfect.
Mark Seven Smith
2005-01-19 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Schneider
Post by John H. Robinson, IV
since you have been using mutt, all your archives are in
mbox, MMDF, MH or Maildir format. all of these are entirely
open formats. evolution should be able to read them,
especially mbox and Maildir.
Or none of the above. I use mutt and my mail is kept on a
cyrus-imap server which doesn't use any of these formats.
Actually, I had all my mutt folders, which Procmail would sort
and put the different mailing lists into, when I switched from
Debian to SuSE 8.2...very neat and set up exactly how I wanted
them...I used mutt for a little while in SuSE, but then wanted
to try Evolution--but it didn't use the existing folders (I
didn't expect it to)...I tried to make it use them, but it
wouldn't (at least I couldn't get it to).

But since the fonts and stuff in Evolution were difficult to read
on my notebook computer, and there was only one level of "zoom",
I switched to KMail. The most excellent thing happened: all of
my old mutt mail folders came right up as folders in KMail! I
will still have to create the filers to make KMail automatically
put the mail into the correct folders (or just run Procmail to
get my Email and have KMail get mail from /var/mail/pampaluz or
wherever it is, and in fact I already have it set up so KMail
will get mail from either there, or directly from the POP3
server at COX cable, or both)--but this, plus the fact that
KMail looks absolutely great--has made me decide to stay with
KMail over Evolution. That, and I never did figure out how to
make good use of Evolution's calendar feature...

Why does an Email client need a calendar feature anyhow? I
suppose if there's a way to integrate it in the office situation
with the local network's calendar system to coordinate with
others on a project via both Email and calendar...but I am not
in an office. The two applications don't seem to intuitively
"go together".
--
Mark Seven Smith - ***@cox.net
Free Software Foundation Member #1372 Pampaluz
Linux Counter #122264 - http://counter.li.org/
Andrew P. Lentvorski
2005-01-19 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Seven Smith
Why does an Email client need a calendar feature anyhow? I
suppose if there's a way to integrate it in the office situation
with the local network's calendar system to coordinate with
others on a project via both Email and calendar...but I am not
in an office. The two applications don't seem to intuitively
"go together".
The main reason why they go together is that Microsoft put them
together in Outlook. Microsoft fused an address book, schedule,
and email into one monolithic blob.

However, in this case Microsoft wasn't stupid. Most folks have their
schedule and contacts in the same device (read: Dayrunner, PalmPilot),
so this is probably a useful thing.

At that point, adding in email is blindingly obvious. In the course
of a day, the most likely time to need to refer to your schedule/contacts
is either in response to an email or to initiate an email.

-a
Lan Barnes
2005-01-19 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
Post by Mark Seven Smith
Why does an Email client need a calendar feature anyhow? I
suppose if there's a way to integrate it in the office situation
with the local network's calendar system to coordinate with
others on a project via both Email and calendar...but I am not
in an office. The two applications don't seem to intuitively
"go together".
The main reason why they go together is that Microsoft put them
together in Outlook. Microsoft fused an address book, schedule,
and email into one monolithic blob.
However, in this case Microsoft wasn't stupid. Most folks have their
schedule and contacts in the same device (read: Dayrunner, PalmPilot),
so this is probably a useful thing.
At that point, adding in email is blindingly obvious. In the course
of a day, the most likely time to need to refer to your schedule/contacts
is either in response to an email or to initiate an email.
I agree with your analysis, but have a comment. I much prefer separate
apps that can be brought up on a desktop at the same time and positioned
as I want them. I have never liked the monolithic approach, and resent
having to bounce between mail and calendar in Outlook at work.
--
Lan Barnes ***@falleagle.net
Linux Guy, SCM Specialist 858-354-0616

Boy, you have a short attention sp...OH, Shiny!
- Stewart Stremler
Cory Petkovsek
2005-01-19 17:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lan Barnes
I agree with your analysis, but have a comment. I much prefer separate
apps that can be brought up on a desktop at the same time and positioned
as I want them. I have never liked the monolithic approach, and resent
having to bounce between mail and calendar in Outlook at work.
Lan, you can open up two outlook windows. Then you can have them
separately positioned. I think the option is file/new/window. Or maybe
window/... Or in the folder list you can try right clicking and 'open
in new window.' I know it can be done but I'm not sure on the method
right now.

Cory
--
Cory Petkovsek Adapting Information
Adaptable IT Consulting Technology to your
(541) 914-8417 business
***@AdaptableIT.com www.AdaptableIT.com
Cory Petkovsek
2005-01-19 18:32:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lan Barnes
I agree with your analysis, but have a comment. I much prefer separate
apps that can be brought up on a desktop at the same time and positioned
as I want them. I have never liked the monolithic approach, and resent
having to bounce between mail and calendar in Outlook at work.
Lan, you can open up two outlook windows. Then you can have them
separately positioned. I think the option is file/new/window. Or maybe
window/... Or in the folder list you can try right clicking and 'open
in new window.' I know it can be done but I'm not sure on the method
right now.

Cory
--
Cory Petkovsek Adapting Information
Adaptable IT Consulting Technology to your
(541) 914-8417 business
***@AdaptableIT.com www.AdaptableIT.com
Lan Barnes
2005-01-19 18:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
Post by Mark Seven Smith
Why does an Email client need a calendar feature anyhow? I
suppose if there's a way to integrate it in the office situation
with the local network's calendar system to coordinate with
others on a project via both Email and calendar...but I am not
in an office. The two applications don't seem to intuitively
"go together".
The main reason why they go together is that Microsoft put them
together in Outlook. Microsoft fused an address book, schedule,
and email into one monolithic blob.
However, in this case Microsoft wasn't stupid. Most folks have their
schedule and contacts in the same device (read: Dayrunner, PalmPilot),
so this is probably a useful thing.
At that point, adding in email is blindingly obvious. In the course
of a day, the most likely time to need to refer to your schedule/contacts
is either in response to an email or to initiate an email.
I agree with your analysis, but have a comment. I much prefer separate
apps that can be brought up on a desktop at the same time and positioned
as I want them. I have never liked the monolithic approach, and resent
having to bounce between mail and calendar in Outlook at work.
--
Lan Barnes ***@falleagle.net
Linux Guy, SCM Specialist 858-354-0616

Boy, you have a short attention sp...OH, Shiny!
- Stewart Stremler
Andrew P. Lentvorski
2005-01-19 18:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Seven Smith
Why does an Email client need a calendar feature anyhow? I
suppose if there's a way to integrate it in the office situation
with the local network's calendar system to coordinate with
others on a project via both Email and calendar...but I am not
in an office. The two applications don't seem to intuitively
"go together".
The main reason why they go together is that Microsoft put them
together in Outlook. Microsoft fused an address book, schedule,
and email into one monolithic blob.

However, in this case Microsoft wasn't stupid. Most folks have their
schedule and contacts in the same device (read: Dayrunner, PalmPilot),
so this is probably a useful thing.

At that point, adding in email is blindingly obvious. In the course
of a day, the most likely time to need to refer to your schedule/contacts
is either in response to an email or to initiate an email.

-a
Mark Seven Smith
2005-01-19 18:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Schneider
Post by John H. Robinson, IV
since you have been using mutt, all your archives are in
mbox, MMDF, MH or Maildir format. all of these are entirely
open formats. evolution should be able to read them,
especially mbox and Maildir.
Or none of the above. I use mutt and my mail is kept on a
cyrus-imap server which doesn't use any of these formats.
Actually, I had all my mutt folders, which Procmail would sort
and put the different mailing lists into, when I switched from
Debian to SuSE 8.2...very neat and set up exactly how I wanted
them...I used mutt for a little while in SuSE, but then wanted
to try Evolution--but it didn't use the existing folders (I
didn't expect it to)...I tried to make it use them, but it
wouldn't (at least I couldn't get it to).

But since the fonts and stuff in Evolution were difficult to read
on my notebook computer, and there was only one level of "zoom",
I switched to KMail. The most excellent thing happened: all of
my old mutt mail folders came right up as folders in KMail! I
will still have to create the filers to make KMail automatically
put the mail into the correct folders (or just run Procmail to
get my Email and have KMail get mail from /var/mail/pampaluz or
wherever it is, and in fact I already have it set up so KMail
will get mail from either there, or directly from the POP3
server at COX cable, or both)--but this, plus the fact that
KMail looks absolutely great--has made me decide to stay with
KMail over Evolution. That, and I never did figure out how to
make good use of Evolution's calendar feature...

Why does an Email client need a calendar feature anyhow? I
suppose if there's a way to integrate it in the office situation
with the local network's calendar system to coordinate with
others on a project via both Email and calendar...but I am not
in an office. The two applications don't seem to intuitively
"go together".
--
Mark Seven Smith - ***@cox.net
Free Software Foundation Member #1372 Pampaluz
Linux Counter #122264 - http://counter.li.org/
Neil Schneider
2005-01-19 18:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by John H. Robinson, IV
since you have been using mutt, all your archives are in mbox, MMDF, MH
or Maildir format. all of these are entirely open formats. evolution
should be able to read them, especially mbox and Maildir.
Or none of the above. I use mutt and my mail is kept on a cyrus-imap
server which doesn't use any of these formats.
--
Neil Schneider pacneil_at_linuxgeek_dot_net
http://www.paccomp.com
Key fingerprint = 67F0 E493 FCC0 0A8C 769B 8209 32D7 1DB1 8460 C47D

... the flaw that makes perfection perfect.
Tracy R Reed
2005-01-19 17:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.
I've used mutt for years and have no need to upgrade. I really like being
able to ssh in and get my mail. Can't do that with Evolution.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right?? Plus, It can setup MAILDIR
format I've been meaning to use instead of mbox for months.
Yes, it is a very nice piece of software. If you want a GUI mailreader
Evolution is the way to go.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect
or else I may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app
transitions easier too???
First make a backup copy of your mail. Then test that the backup copy
works. :) Then go ahead and do the transition and if you screw anything up
you have protection.
--
Tracy Reed
http://copilotconsulting.com
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.kernel-panic.org/pipermail/kplug-list/attachments/20030924/1dee26ca/attachment.pgp
shaggybark at earthlink.net ()
2005-01-19 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
I have used Evolution extensively, and I prefer Mutt or its equivalent,
such as Exim or Pine, because they are much faster to use with the
keyboard, and with a full screen console with large letters, green on
black, they are so much easier to read than Evolution for my old eyes.
Ease of seeing is what gets my vote in the final analysis. Mutt it is!

Don J.
Post by Tracy R Reed
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.
I've used mutt for years and have no need to upgrade. I really like being
able to ssh in and get my mail. Can't do that with Evolution.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right?? Plus, It can setup MAILDIR
format I've been meaning to use instead of mbox for months.
Yes, it is a very nice piece of software. If you want a GUI mailreader
Evolution is the way to go.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect
or else I may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app
transitions easier too???
First make a backup copy of your mail. Then test that the backup copy
works. :) Then go ahead and do the transition and if you screw anything up
you have protection.
--
Tracy Reed
http://copilotconsulting.com
--
Don W. Jenkins
Rancho San Diego
1984 XJ6 Series III Gray/Gray "Ms. Jaggers"
"People will let you do whatever you will." Max Farce
shaggybark at earthlink.net ()
2005-01-19 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
I have used Evolution extensively, and I prefer Mutt or its equivalent,
such as Exim or Pine, because they are much faster to use with the
keyboard, and with a full screen console with large letters, green on
black, they are so much easier to read than Evolution for my old eyes.
Ease of seeing is what gets my vote in the final analysis. Mutt it is!

Don J.
Post by Tracy R Reed
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.
I've used mutt for years and have no need to upgrade. I really like being
able to ssh in and get my mail. Can't do that with Evolution.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right?? Plus, It can setup MAILDIR
format I've been meaning to use instead of mbox for months.
Yes, it is a very nice piece of software. If you want a GUI mailreader
Evolution is the way to go.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect
or else I may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app
transitions easier too???
First make a backup copy of your mail. Then test that the backup copy
works. :) Then go ahead and do the transition and if you screw anything up
you have protection.
--
Tracy Reed
http://copilotconsulting.com
--
Don W. Jenkins
Rancho San Diego
1984 XJ6 Series III Gray/Gray "Ms. Jaggers"
"People will let you do whatever you will." Max Farce
Cory Petkovsek
2005-01-19 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.
I stepped into the 21st century, stopped using lookout and started using
mutt. Evolution is better than outlook, but not better than mutt, for
my needs. The only thing I use evolution for is to sync my visor and to
manage my calendar/tasks/contacts on my computer.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right?? Plus, It can setup MAILDIR
format I've been meaning to use instead of mbox for months.
The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect
or else I may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app
transitions easier too???
Use an imap server. Set one up locally. Use courier-imap which works
with maildir. Then it doesn't matter whether you use mutt or imap or
kmail or anything else. Your mail is in one location. You can switch
back and forth all you like. If your mail is already in maildir, just
install courier-imap and configure mutt and evolution to use imap and
you are done. If you have an mbox, configure your mta to drop mail in
as maildir, run some mbox2maildir script, follow the above instruction
and again you are done.

Cory
--
Cory Petkovsek Adapting Information
Adaptable IT Consulting Technology to your
(541) 914-8417 business
***@AdaptableIT.com www.AdaptableIT.com
Brian Deacon
2005-01-19 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cory Petkovsek
Use an imap server. Set one up locally. Use courier-imap which works
with maildir. Then it doesn't matter whether you use mutt or imap or
Yah, like he said. :) I started in Evolution, but with limited access
from work now I have add mutt to the mix (which like all things Linux, has
been quite pleasing once I got past the sadistic learning curve). But
I wasn't going to move to mutt if it meant giving up evolution
entirely. The problem with evolution in any of the standard mail
formats is that it wants to own your mail when you're done. Which
then means it's lost to mutt or any other MUA. Configure Evolution to
go over imap and set up your mail in maildir format. Keep using
procmail to sort your mail, cuz Evolution can only sort when it grabs
your mail, and (I'm not certain) but I don't think it's user-friendly
filter stuff works on imap folders. Get the new version of SpamAssassin
because it now auto-feeds extremely hammy or extremely spammy mail to
the bayesian filter.

But Evolution is a great product <shieldsup>although a good deal
buggier than Outlook XP</shieldsup>. But the feature set is much
broader and like all the goodies from Ximian, has been moving along at
quite a clip.

I'm personally getting weirdness with mutt when going straight at my
maildirs, but that might just be me. So now I have mutt go over imap
as well, and no worries.

Oh, and evolution doesn't think your maildir directory exists unless
it's name starts with a '.' -- Go figger.

On an only mildly related note... I use emacs as my mail editor, but
when I ssh in from a cygwin bash terminal on my win2k box at work, I
get the problem with backspace looking like a Ctrl-H. Googling on the
issue confused me greatly. Somebody's gotta know the quick tip on
this. Nano behaves fine with the backspace, and emacs behaves
correctly when I'm ssh'd from a WinXP box. Anyone? Bueller?

Brian
Tracy R Reed
2005-01-19 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Deacon
Oh, and evolution doesn't think your maildir directory exists unless
it's name starts with a '.' -- Go figger.
The courier IMAP directions specify rather too briefly that the inbox path
has to be set to INBOX. (note the dot, it's important) in the MUA. Having
to set this in every MUA that is going to talk to the IMAP server is my
biggest complaint about Courier.
Post by Brian Deacon
issue confused me greatly. Somebody's gotta know the quick tip on
this. Nano behaves fine with the backspace, and emacs behaves
correctly when I'm ssh'd from a WinXP box. Anyone? Bueller?
A very common problem the answer to which I do not recall.
--
Tracy Reed
http://copilotconsulting.com
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.kernel-panic.org/pipermail/kplug-list/attachments/20030924/f0605658/attachment.pgp
Joshua Penix
2005-01-19 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tracy R Reed
The courier IMAP directions specify rather too briefly that the inbox path
has to be set to INBOX. (note the dot, it's important) in the MUA. Having
to set this in every MUA that is going to talk to the IMAP server is my
biggest complaint about Courier.
I've yet to meet an IMAP server which didn't have inbox path set to be
"INBOX." The problem isn't Courier, it's outdated or broken IMAP
clients. Any proper MUA should *not* need to be explicitly told this.
I recently switched one server from Cyrus to Courier, and not a single
email client noticed. All of the following have handled Courier without
having to have any special configuration done other than "what's the IP
of the IMAP server and what's your username/password":

Evolution
Mozilla Mail (v1.4 and above)
Thunderbird 0.2
Squirrelmail (Webmail)
IMP (Webmail)

I believe even Outlook Express was happy with it, though I can't verify
that right this second (had a remote user with it, no complaints from
him).

Here's Courier's FAQ on the issue:
http://www.inter7.com/courierimap/FAQ.html#namespace

--Josh
Tracy R Reed
2005-01-19 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Penix
I've yet to meet an IMAP server which didn't have inbox path set to be
"INBOX." The problem isn't Courier, it's outdated or broken IMAP
Ah. I stand corrected. I've always thought it was an oddity of Courier.
It is amazing that so many IMAP clients can't figure out the namespace for
themselves.
Post by Joshua Penix
clients. Any proper MUA should *not* need to be explicitly told this.
I recently switched one server from Cyrus to Courier, and not a single
email client noticed. All of the following have handled Courier without
having to have any special configuration done other than "what's the IP
Evolution
Mozilla Mail (v1.4 and above)
Thunderbird 0.2
Squirrelmail (Webmail)
IMP (Webmail)
Actually, I *did* have to tell Squirrelmail and I think Imp also to use
INBOX. or folders did not work right.

From the config_default.php from squirrelmail 1.4.0:

/**
* Many servers store mail in your home directory. With this, they
* store them in a subdirectory: mail/ or Mail/, etc. If your server
* does this, please set this to what the default mail folder should
* be. This is still a user preference, so they can change it if it
* is different for each user.
*
* Example:
* $default_folder_prefix = 'mail/';
* -- or --
* $default_folder_prefix = 'Mail/folders/';
*
* If you do not use this, set it to the empty string.
*/
global $default_folder_prefix;
$default_folder_prefix = '';

This setup did not work with my Courier. To make folders work properly I
had to change $default_folder_prefix to:

$default_folder_prefix = 'INBOX.';
--
Tracy Reed
http://copilotconsulting.com
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.kernel-panic.org/pipermail/kplug-list/attachments/20030924/602f6093/attachment.pgp
Joshua Penix
2005-01-19 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tracy R Reed
global $default_folder_prefix;
$default_folder_prefix = '';
This setup did not work with my Courier. To make folders work properly I
$default_folder_prefix = 'INBOX.';
Ooh nuts you're right. I just went back into my Squirrelmail config
trying to figure out how I managed to get it working properly without
remembering setting that... and then I found the "D. Set pre-defined
settings for specific IMAP servers" setting in the top level menu - it
has a preset for Courier which fills in everything necessary.

--Josh
Joshua Penix
2005-01-19 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tracy R Reed
global $default_folder_prefix;
$default_folder_prefix = '';
This setup did not work with my Courier. To make folders work properly I
$default_folder_prefix = 'INBOX.';
Ooh nuts you're right. I just went back into my Squirrelmail config
trying to figure out how I managed to get it working properly without
remembering setting that... and then I found the "D. Set pre-defined
settings for specific IMAP servers" setting in the top level menu - it
has a preset for Courier which fills in everything necessary.

--Josh
Tracy R Reed
2005-01-19 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joshua Penix
I've yet to meet an IMAP server which didn't have inbox path set to be
"INBOX." The problem isn't Courier, it's outdated or broken IMAP
Ah. I stand corrected. I've always thought it was an oddity of Courier.
It is amazing that so many IMAP clients can't figure out the namespace for
themselves.
Post by Joshua Penix
clients. Any proper MUA should *not* need to be explicitly told this.
I recently switched one server from Cyrus to Courier, and not a single
email client noticed. All of the following have handled Courier without
having to have any special configuration done other than "what's the IP
Evolution
Mozilla Mail (v1.4 and above)
Thunderbird 0.2
Squirrelmail (Webmail)
IMP (Webmail)
Actually, I *did* have to tell Squirrelmail and I think Imp also to use
INBOX. or folders did not work right.

From the config_default.php from squirrelmail 1.4.0:

/**
* Many servers store mail in your home directory. With this, they
* store them in a subdirectory: mail/ or Mail/, etc. If your server
* does this, please set this to what the default mail folder should
* be. This is still a user preference, so they can change it if it
* is different for each user.
*
* Example:
* $default_folder_prefix = 'mail/';
* -- or --
* $default_folder_prefix = 'Mail/folders/';
*
* If you do not use this, set it to the empty string.
*/
global $default_folder_prefix;
$default_folder_prefix = '';

This setup did not work with my Courier. To make folders work properly I
had to change $default_folder_prefix to:

$default_folder_prefix = 'INBOX.';
--
Tracy Reed
http://copilotconsulting.com
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.kernel-panic.org/pipermail/kplug-list/attachments/20030924/602f6093/attachment-0001.pgp
Neil Schneider
2005-01-19 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tracy R Reed
Post by Brian Deacon
Oh, and evolution doesn't think your maildir directory exists unless
it's name starts with a '.' -- Go figger.
The courier IMAP directions specify rather too briefly that the inbox path
has to be set to INBOX. (note the dot, it's important) in the MUA. Having
to set this in every MUA that is going to talk to the IMAP server is my
biggest complaint about Courier.
That's pretty standard imap stuff. Cyrus-imapd has the same. Most imap
aware MUAs deal with it just fine. I know mutt does, though the keystrokes
are slightly different for imap than for pop.
--
Neil Schneider pacneil_at_linuxgeek_dot_net
http://www.paccomp.com
Key fingerprint = 67F0 E493 FCC0 0A8C 769B 8209 32D7 1DB1 8460 C47D

"All language designers are arrogant. Goes with the territory..."
(By Larry Wall)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.kernel-panic.org/pipermail/kplug-list/attachments/20030927/9459c334/attachment.pgp
Brian Deacon
2005-01-19 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Schneider
Post by Tracy R Reed
Post by Brian Deacon
Oh, and evolution doesn't think your maildir directory exists unless
it's name starts with a '.' -- Go figger.
The courier IMAP directions specify rather too briefly that the inbox path
has to be set to INBOX. (note the dot, it's important) in the MUA. Having
to set this in every MUA that is going to talk to the IMAP server is my
biggest complaint about Courier.
That's pretty standard imap stuff. Cyrus-imapd has the same. Most imap
aware MUAs deal with it just fine. I know mutt does, though the keystrokes
are slightly different for imap than for pop.
Hmm... mutt had/has no problem viewing imap folders without the
leading "." <shrug>. Hmmm.... I s'pose I could change the regexp for
the folder filter so I don't have to hit that extra tab. It seemed
annoying to me that to make Evolution happy, I put a . in front, which
then hides the folder names from mutt unless I add them in to that
folders-whatever setting in .muttrc.

And what's the insanity with the coloring in mutt? Seems like I
change the foreground/background for one object and completely
unrelated objects start coloring in ways that I never told them
to... And how does the logic with "default" color work? It seems like
different objects have different interpretations of "default".

B
Brian Deacon
2005-01-19 18:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Schneider
Post by Tracy R Reed
Post by Brian Deacon
Oh, and evolution doesn't think your maildir directory exists unless
it's name starts with a '.' -- Go figger.
The courier IMAP directions specify rather too briefly that the inbox path
has to be set to INBOX. (note the dot, it's important) in the MUA. Having
to set this in every MUA that is going to talk to the IMAP server is my
biggest complaint about Courier.
That's pretty standard imap stuff. Cyrus-imapd has the same. Most imap
aware MUAs deal with it just fine. I know mutt does, though the keystrokes
are slightly different for imap than for pop.
Hmm... mutt had/has no problem viewing imap folders without the
leading "." <shrug>. Hmmm.... I s'pose I could change the regexp for
the folder filter so I don't have to hit that extra tab. It seemed
annoying to me that to make Evolution happy, I put a . in front, which
then hides the folder names from mutt unless I add them in to that
folders-whatever setting in .muttrc.

And what's the insanity with the coloring in mutt? Seems like I
change the foreground/background for one object and completely
unrelated objects start coloring in ways that I never told them
to... And how does the logic with "default" color work? It seems like
different objects have different interpretations of "default".

B
Joshua Penix
2005-01-19 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tracy R Reed
The courier IMAP directions specify rather too briefly that the inbox path
has to be set to INBOX. (note the dot, it's important) in the MUA. Having
to set this in every MUA that is going to talk to the IMAP server is my
biggest complaint about Courier.
I've yet to meet an IMAP server which didn't have inbox path set to be
"INBOX." The problem isn't Courier, it's outdated or broken IMAP
clients. Any proper MUA should *not* need to be explicitly told this.
I recently switched one server from Cyrus to Courier, and not a single
email client noticed. All of the following have handled Courier without
having to have any special configuration done other than "what's the IP
of the IMAP server and what's your username/password":

Evolution
Mozilla Mail (v1.4 and above)
Thunderbird 0.2
Squirrelmail (Webmail)
IMP (Webmail)

I believe even Outlook Express was happy with it, though I can't verify
that right this second (had a remote user with it, no complaints from
him).

Here's Courier's FAQ on the issue:
http://www.inter7.com/courierimap/FAQ.html#namespace

--Josh
Neil Schneider
2005-01-19 18:32:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tracy R Reed
Post by Brian Deacon
Oh, and evolution doesn't think your maildir directory exists unless
it's name starts with a '.' -- Go figger.
The courier IMAP directions specify rather too briefly that the inbox path
has to be set to INBOX. (note the dot, it's important) in the MUA. Having
to set this in every MUA that is going to talk to the IMAP server is my
biggest complaint about Courier.
That's pretty standard imap stuff. Cyrus-imapd has the same. Most imap
aware MUAs deal with it just fine. I know mutt does, though the keystrokes
are slightly different for imap than for pop.
--
Neil Schneider pacneil_at_linuxgeek_dot_net
http://www.paccomp.com
Key fingerprint = 67F0 E493 FCC0 0A8C 769B 8209 32D7 1DB1 8460 C47D

"All language designers are arrogant. Goes with the territory..."
(By Larry Wall)
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.kernel-panic.org/pipermail/kplug-list/attachments/20030927/9459c334/attachment-0001.pgp
seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
2005-01-19 17:06:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Deacon
On an only mildly related note... I use emacs as my mail editor, but
when I ssh in from a cygwin bash terminal on my win2k box at work, I
get the problem with backspace looking like a Ctrl-H. Googling on the
issue confused me greatly. Somebody's gotta know the quick tip on
this. Nano behaves fine with the backspace, and emacs behaves
correctly when I'm ssh'd from a WinXP box. Anyone? Bueller?
(global-set-key "\C-h" 'delete-backward-char )


Chris
Brian Deacon
2005-01-19 17:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
Post by Brian Deacon
On an only mildly related note... I use emacs as my mail editor, but
when I ssh in from a cygwin bash terminal on my win2k box at work, I
get the problem with backspace looking like a Ctrl-H. Googling on the
issue confused me greatly. Somebody's gotta know the quick tip on
this. Nano behaves fine with the backspace, and emacs behaves
correctly when I'm ssh'd from a WinXP box. Anyone? Bueller?
(global-set-key "\C-h" 'delete-backward-char )
Beautiful! Thanks!

B
Brian Deacon
2005-01-19 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
Post by Brian Deacon
On an only mildly related note... I use emacs as my mail editor, but
when I ssh in from a cygwin bash terminal on my win2k box at work, I
get the problem with backspace looking like a Ctrl-H. Googling on the
issue confused me greatly. Somebody's gotta know the quick tip on
this. Nano behaves fine with the backspace, and emacs behaves
correctly when I'm ssh'd from a WinXP box. Anyone? Bueller?
(global-set-key "\C-h" 'delete-backward-char )
Beautiful! Thanks!

B
Tracy R Reed
2005-01-19 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Deacon
Oh, and evolution doesn't think your maildir directory exists unless
it's name starts with a '.' -- Go figger.
The courier IMAP directions specify rather too briefly that the inbox path
has to be set to INBOX. (note the dot, it's important) in the MUA. Having
to set this in every MUA that is going to talk to the IMAP server is my
biggest complaint about Courier.
Post by Brian Deacon
issue confused me greatly. Somebody's gotta know the quick tip on
this. Nano behaves fine with the backspace, and emacs behaves
correctly when I'm ssh'd from a WinXP box. Anyone? Bueller?
A very common problem the answer to which I do not recall.
--
Tracy Reed
http://copilotconsulting.com
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.kernel-panic.org/pipermail/kplug-list/attachments/20030924/f0605658/attachment-0001.pgp
seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
2005-01-19 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Deacon
On an only mildly related note... I use emacs as my mail editor, but
when I ssh in from a cygwin bash terminal on my win2k box at work, I
get the problem with backspace looking like a Ctrl-H. Googling on the
issue confused me greatly. Somebody's gotta know the quick tip on
this. Nano behaves fine with the backspace, and emacs behaves
correctly when I'm ssh'd from a WinXP box. Anyone? Bueller?
(global-set-key "\C-h" 'delete-backward-char )


Chris
Brian Deacon
2005-01-19 18:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cory Petkovsek
Use an imap server. Set one up locally. Use courier-imap which works
with maildir. Then it doesn't matter whether you use mutt or imap or
Yah, like he said. :) I started in Evolution, but with limited access
from work now I have add mutt to the mix (which like all things Linux, has
been quite pleasing once I got past the sadistic learning curve). But
I wasn't going to move to mutt if it meant giving up evolution
entirely. The problem with evolution in any of the standard mail
formats is that it wants to own your mail when you're done. Which
then means it's lost to mutt or any other MUA. Configure Evolution to
go over imap and set up your mail in maildir format. Keep using
procmail to sort your mail, cuz Evolution can only sort when it grabs
your mail, and (I'm not certain) but I don't think it's user-friendly
filter stuff works on imap folders. Get the new version of SpamAssassin
because it now auto-feeds extremely hammy or extremely spammy mail to
the bayesian filter.

But Evolution is a great product <shieldsup>although a good deal
buggier than Outlook XP</shieldsup>. But the feature set is much
broader and like all the goodies from Ximian, has been moving along at
quite a clip.

I'm personally getting weirdness with mutt when going straight at my
maildirs, but that might just be me. So now I have mutt go over imap
as well, and no worries.

Oh, and evolution doesn't think your maildir directory exists unless
it's name starts with a '.' -- Go figger.

On an only mildly related note... I use emacs as my mail editor, but
when I ssh in from a cygwin bash terminal on my win2k box at work, I
get the problem with backspace looking like a Ctrl-H. Googling on the
issue confused me greatly. Somebody's gotta know the quick tip on
this. Nano behaves fine with the backspace, and emacs behaves
correctly when I'm ssh'd from a WinXP box. Anyone? Bueller?

Brian
seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
2005-01-19 18:32:27 UTC
Permalink
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.

IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right?? Plus, It can setup MAILDIR
format I've been meaning to use instead of mbox for months.

The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect
or else I may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app
transitions easier too???

Chris
--
_______________________________________

Christian Seberino, Ph.D.
SPAWAR Systems Center San Diego
Code 2872
49258 Mills Street, Room 158
San Diego, CA 92152-5385
U.S.A.

Phone: (619) 553-9973
Fax : (619) 553-6521
Email: ***@spawar.navy.mil
_______________________________________
John H. Robinson, IV
2005-01-19 18:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.
well, SOME people might argue against GUI means better (i'm one of them).
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right??
*shwug* never used it. it would be hell over an ssh link, plus it
would not work over screen all that well. so much for all that 21st
century goodness . . .
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
Plus, It can setup MAILDIR format I've been meaning to use instead of
mbox for months.
mutt has been able to do that for years now.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect or else I
may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app transitions easier
too???
not really. the MUA is almost entirely transparent to your mailbox.
the differenceses lie in when the MUA is a pop/imap client and stores
the mail in its own private or proprietary format. that is when you
lose mail.

since you have been using mutt, all your archives are in mbox, MMDF, MH
or Maildir format. all of these are entirely open formats. evolution
should be able to read them, especially mbox and Maildir.

if you transition TO evolution, and it does freaky things, then you
might lose archives when you go back to your 22nd century MUA
(available NOW at an ftp site near you!). but you should lose no
INCOMING mail whatsoever.

enjoy!

and, whichever way it works out, feel free to share with the group your
experiences, both good and bad.

-john
Tracy R Reed
2005-01-19 18:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.
I've used mutt for years and have no need to upgrade. I really like being
able to ssh in and get my mail. Can't do that with Evolution.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right?? Plus, It can setup MAILDIR
format I've been meaning to use instead of mbox for months.
Yes, it is a very nice piece of software. If you want a GUI mailreader
Evolution is the way to go.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect
or else I may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app
transitions easier too???
First make a backup copy of your mail. Then test that the backup copy
works. :) Then go ahead and do the transition and if you screw anything up
you have protection.
--
Tracy Reed
http://copilotconsulting.com
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://www.kernel-panic.org/pipermail/kplug-list/attachments/20030924/1dee26ca/attachment-0001.pgp
Cory Petkovsek
2005-01-19 18:32:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
I've been using mutt for years. It is time to step into
the 21st century and use a GUI email client... i.e. I'm bored with mutt.
I stepped into the 21st century, stopped using lookout and started using
mutt. Evolution is better than outlook, but not better than mutt, for
my needs. The only thing I use evolution for is to sync my visor and to
manage my calendar/tasks/contacts on my computer.
Post by seberino at spawar.navy.mil ()
IIRC, Evolution is great software that has its own filtering
so you don't need procmail right?? Plus, It can setup MAILDIR
format I've been meaning to use instead of mbox for months.
The problem is that I must do everything IMMEDIATELY perfect
or else I may lose email!?!? Any ideas how to make email app
transitions easier too???
Use an imap server. Set one up locally. Use courier-imap which works
with maildir. Then it doesn't matter whether you use mutt or imap or
kmail or anything else. Your mail is in one location. You can switch
back and forth all you like. If your mail is already in maildir, just
install courier-imap and configure mutt and evolution to use imap and
you are done. If you have an mbox, configure your mta to drop mail in
as maildir, run some mbox2maildir script, follow the above instruction
and again you are done.

Cory
--
Cory Petkovsek Adapting Information
Adaptable IT Consulting Technology to your
(541) 914-8417 business
***@AdaptableIT.com www.AdaptableIT.com
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...