Recommendations for e-mail hosting service

[Gus Wirth]

My company has it's e-mail hosted at Bluehost, which is actually more of
a web hosting company rather than an e-mail service. Their support is
appalling with idiots at their support desk. They didn't even know that
their SMTP servers were rate limited despite direct evidence from the
logs that they were blocking my connection after sending only 6 messages.

I'm looking for a mail service company that can provide the following:

IMAP for dedicated client applications (i.e. Thunderbird)

Web mail for non-dedicated client use

Backups that I can download: daily, weekly, monthly

Raw access to the mail store through ssh/rsync. This is so I can make my
own incremental backups. I would prefer that the mail be maintained in
maildir format to make backups easier.

Ability to send bulk e-mail. My company provides notifications of
training schedules for California Energy Commission sanctioned training.
We have about 1300 subscribers to our list that want to be notified when
new trainings are available.

Copy on send, meaning the SMTP server takes care of placing a copy of
the sent e-mail into the SENT folder of the sender. I know that GMail
can do this but I'm not sure about others. I would like to able to set
this per account. Otherwise I have a bit of programming to do that I
would like to avoid.

Ability to migrate all the old e-mail to the new system. This is
currently about 13GB of data, which represents about 7 years of company
use. We are required to maintain 7 years of communication. The reason
it's so big is because we have to deal with idiots that don't know how
to use an sftp server or Dropbox for files and instead send everything
as an attachment. Repeatedly.

A support desk staffed by someone that actually understands things like
SMTP, IMAP, rate limiting, etc.

My current e-mail provider is using Exim for the SMTP server and Dovecot
for the IMAP server, but I don't really care what the replacement
backend runs as long as it works.

Gus

[Tracy Reed]

How much does this sort of thing go for? Copilotco might be able to
provide this.

My company has it's e-mail hosted at Bluehost, which is actually more of a
web hosting company rather than an e-mail service. Their support is
appalling with idiots at their support desk. They didn't even know that
their SMTP servers were rate limited despite direct evidence from the logs
that they were blocking my connection after sending only 6 messages.
IMAP for dedicated client applications (i.e. Thunderbird)
Web mail for non-dedicated client use
Backups that I can download: daily, weekly, monthly
Raw access to the mail store through ssh/rsync. This is so I can make my own
incremental backups. I would prefer that the mail be maintained in maildir
format to make backups easier.
Ability to send bulk e-mail. My company provides notifications of training
schedules for California Energy Commission sanctioned training. We have
about 1300 subscribers to our list that want to be notified when new
trainings are available.
Copy on send, meaning the SMTP server takes care of placing a copy of the
sent e-mail into the SENT folder of the sender. I know that GMail can do
this but I'm not sure about others. I would like to able to set this per
account. Otherwise I have a bit of programming to do that I would like to
avoid.
Ability to migrate all the old e-mail to the new system. This is currently
about 13GB of data, which represents about 7 years of company use. We are
required to maintain 7 years of communication. The reason it's so big is
because we have to deal with idiots that don't know how to use an sftp
server or Dropbox for files and instead send everything as an attachment.
Repeatedly.
A support desk staffed by someone that actually understands things like
SMTP, IMAP, rate limiting, etc.
My current e-mail provider is using Exim for the SMTP server and Dovecot for
the IMAP server, but I don't really care what the replacement backend runs
as long as it works.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[David Brown]

About a year ago, I switched my email hosting from fastmail.com to
gmail. I've been pretty happy with fastmail.com, and would definitely
use them if I didn't need some of the extra features gmail provides.

I've answered the questions as much as I know. Their support was
pretty good in my experience, and email hosting seems to be their
primary focus.

Post by Gus Wirth
IMAP for dedicated client applications (i.e. Thunderbird)
Web mail for non-dedicated client use
Backups that I can download: daily, weekly, monthly
Raw access to the mail store through ssh/rsync. This is so I can make my own
incremental backups. I would prefer that the mail be maintained in maildir
format to make backups easier.

I suspect this is going to be hard to find. Providers are unlikely to
want to expose this, both from a security point of view, and a support
point of view.

But, is it even necessary? With my (prior) fastmail.com mail hosting,
I synchronized the mail over imap using 'mbsync' (part of isync on
some systems). The sync was very fast. It was able to do an initial
sync of about 7 GB of mail in just a few minutes. The main thing
there to speed that sync up is to be sure to disable 'fsync' in the
configuration file (otherwise it will take hours). It will then do
incremental updates as desired, which are very quick.

At that point, you have a tree containing the maildir format of all of
the mail and can archive or back it up as desired.

Post by Gus Wirth
Ability to send bulk e-mail. My company provides notifications of training
schedules for California Energy Commission sanctioned training. We have
about 1300 subscribers to our list that want to be notified when new
trainings are available.
Copy on send, meaning the SMTP server takes care of placing a copy of the
sent e-mail into the SENT folder of the sender. I know that GMail can do
this but I'm not sure about others. I would like to able to set this per
account. Otherwise I have a bit of programming to do that I would like to
avoid.

I'm unsure about this with fastmail.com. I know it happens with their
web client, but this is (was) a pretty uncommon thing for mail servers
to do until Gmail started doing it.

Post by Gus Wirth
Ability to migrate all the old e-mail to the new system. This is currently
about 13GB of data, which represents about 7 years of company use. We are
required to maintain 7 years of communication. The reason it's so big is
because we have to deal with idiots that don't know how to use an sftp
server or Dropbox for files and instead send everything as an attachment.
Repeatedly.

I know fastmail.com has a tool to import all email from another imap
server. Not sure if that is what you need.

Post by Gus Wirth
A support desk staffed by someone that actually understands things like
SMTP, IMAP, rate limiting, etc.

This seems to be the case with them.

Post by Gus Wirth
My current e-mail provider is using Exim for the SMTP server and Dovecot for
the IMAP server, but I don't really care what the replacement backend runs
as long as it works.

It isn't completely clear what they are running. It seems to be a mix
of standard utilities and customized stuff.

David

[Brian W.]

Could always get a Linux vps somewhere for a few bucks a month?

On Sep 19, 2017 3:56 PM, "David Brown" <***@davidb.org> wrote:

About a year ago, I switched my email hosting from fastmail.com to
gmail. I've been pretty happy with fastmail.com, and would definitely
use them if I didn't need some of the extra features gmail provides.

I've answered the questions as much as I know. Their support was
pretty good in my experience, and email hosting seems to be their
primary focus.

Post by Gus Wirth
IMAP for dedicated client applications (i.e. Thunderbird)
Web mail for non-dedicated client use
Backups that I can download: daily, weekly, monthly
Raw access to the mail store through ssh/rsync. This is so I can make my own
incremental backups. I would prefer that the mail be maintained in maildir
format to make backups easier.

I suspect this is going to be hard to find. Providers are unlikely to
want to expose this, both from a security point of view, and a support
point of view.

But, is it even necessary? With my (prior) fastmail.com mail hosting,
I synchronized the mail over imap using 'mbsync' (part of isync on
some systems). The sync was very fast. It was able to do an initial
sync of about 7 GB of mail in just a few minutes. The main thing
there to speed that sync up is to be sure to disable 'fsync' in the
configuration file (otherwise it will take hours). It will then do
incremental updates as desired, which are very quick.

At that point, you have a tree containing the maildir format of all of
the mail and can archive or back it up as desired.


Ability to send bulk e-mail. My company provides notifications of training

Post by Gus Wirth
schedules for California Energy Commission sanctioned training. We have
about 1300 subscribers to our list that want to be notified when new
trainings are available.
Copy on send, meaning the SMTP server takes care of placing a copy of the
sent e-mail into the SENT folder of the sender. I know that GMail can do
this but I'm not sure about others. I would like to able to set this per
account. Otherwise I have a bit of programming to do that I would like to
avoid.

I'm unsure about this with fastmail.com. I know it happens with their
web client, but this is (was) a pretty uncommon thing for mail servers
to do until Gmail started doing it.


Ability to migrate all the old e-mail to the new system. This is currently

Post by Gus Wirth
about 13GB of data, which represents about 7 years of company use. We are
required to maintain 7 years of communication. The reason it's so big is
because we have to deal with idiots that don't know how to use an sftp
server or Dropbox for files and instead send everything as an attachment.
Repeatedly.

I know fastmail.com has a tool to import all email from another imap
server. Not sure if that is what you need.


A support desk staffed by someone that actually understands things like

Post by Gus Wirth
SMTP, IMAP, rate limiting, etc.

This seems to be the case with them.


My current e-mail provider is using Exim for the SMTP server and Dovecot for

Post by Gus Wirth
the IMAP server, but I don't really care what the replacement backend runs
as long as it works.

It isn't completely clear what they are running. It seems to be a mix
of standard utilities and customized stuff.

David

[Gus Wirth]

Post by Brian W.
Could always get a Linux vps somewhere for a few bucks a month?

But that means I have to do all the work. I don't want to do the work. I
need the company to function even if I'm not around to keep an eye on
things.

Gus

[Gus Wirth]

Post by Tracy Reed
How much does this sort of thing go for? Copilotco might be able to
provide this.

Right now we are paying about $100/year for web hosting, which we barely
use, and about a dozen e-mail addresses which map to various uses, and
only four of which get any real use. We also have a couple of domains
hosted, most of which redirect to the main web site. A couple MySQL
databases go along with the web sites.

The current system with Bluehost uses cPanel on a shared server to
manage all the accounts, domains, databases (mysql), web site, etc. I
have ssh access to the server to edit things like the web sites
directly. The e-mail is stored in the same server which means I can go
into an e-mail directory and do a "grep" with a regular expression to do
a complex search for a specific e-mail on the server. I've only had to
do that a couple times in the last few years but it's nice to have that
capability.

One thing that I forgot to add to the list is Spam filtering at the
server level. What I'd like is for the filtering to automatically place
suspected spam into the client's spam folder without having to be marked
as spam and then filtered by the client.

Gus

[Kevin Keane Subscription]

I don’t usually like to recommend the big guy, but in this case: since you are OK with hosting, gmail seems to be the way to go. It is such a big player that a large share of your destinations will stay within the same system, and if there is a technical glitch, they will be on top of it long before you even know.

 
One thing: for delivering your mass emails, don’t use your standard mail service, regardless of which one it is. You risk blacklisting. Instead, use one of the email delivery services that specialize in mailing lists. The big names I can think of in that field are ConstantContact, SendGrid and MailChimp, but there are many more.

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Gus Wirth <mailto:***@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:37 AM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: Recommendations for e-mail hosting service

 


My company has it's e-mail hosted at Bluehost, which is actually more of
a web hosting company rather than an e-mail service. Their support is
appalling with idiots at their support desk. They didn't even know that
their SMTP servers were rate limited despite direct evidence from the
logs that they were blocking my connection after sending only 6 messages.

I'm looking for a mail service company that can provide the following:

IMAP for dedicated client applications (i.e. Thunderbird)

Web mail for non-dedicated client use

Backups that I can download: daily, weekly, monthly

Raw access to the mail store through ssh/rsync. This is so I can make my
own incremental backups. I would prefer that the mail be maintained in
maildir format to make backups easier.

Ability to send bulk e-mail. My company provides notifications of
training schedules for California Energy Commission sanctioned training.
We have about 1300 subscribers to our list that want to be notified when
new trainings are available.

Copy on send, meaning the SMTP server takes care of placing a copy of
the sent e-mail into the SENT folder of the sender. I know that GMail
can do this but I'm not sure about others. I would like to able to set
this per account. Otherwise I have a bit of programming to do that I
would like to avoid.

Ability to migrate all the old e-mail to the new system. This is
currently about 13GB of data, which represents about 7 years of company
use. We are required to maintain 7 years of communication. The reason
it's so big is because we have to deal with idiots that don't know how
to use an sftp server or Dropbox for files and instead send everything
as an attachment. Repeatedly.

A support desk staffed by someone that actually understands things like
SMTP, IMAP, rate limiting, etc.

My current e-mail provider is using Exim for the SMTP server and Dovecot
for the IMAP server, but I don't really care what the replacement
backend runs as long as it works.

Gus


--
KPLUG-***@kernel-panic.org
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Brian W.]

Godaddy is accessible via imap and webmail as well.

Brian

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I don’t usually like to recommend the big guy, but in this case: since you
are OK with hosting, gmail seems to be the way to go. It is such a big
player that a large share of your destinations will stay within the same
system, and if there is a technical glitch, they will be on top of it long
before you even know.
One thing: for delivering your mass emails, don’t use your standard mail
service, regardless of which one it is. You risk blacklisting. Instead, use
one of the email delivery services that specialize in mailing lists. The
big names I can think of in that field are ConstantContact, SendGrid and
MailChimp, but there are many more.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:37 AM
Subject: Recommendations for e-mail hosting service
My company has it's e-mail hosted at Bluehost, which is actually more of
a web hosting company rather than an e-mail service. Their support is
appalling with idiots at their support desk. They didn't even know that
their SMTP servers were rate limited despite direct evidence from the
logs that they were blocking my connection after sending only 6 messages.
IMAP for dedicated client applications (i.e. Thunderbird)
Web mail for non-dedicated client use
Backups that I can download: daily, weekly, monthly
Raw access to the mail store through ssh/rsync. This is so I can make my
own incremental backups. I would prefer that the mail be maintained in
maildir format to make backups easier.
Ability to send bulk e-mail. My company provides notifications of
training schedules for California Energy Commission sanctioned training.
We have about 1300 subscribers to our list that want to be notified when
new trainings are available.
Copy on send, meaning the SMTP server takes care of placing a copy of
the sent e-mail into the SENT folder of the sender. I know that GMail
can do this but I'm not sure about others. I would like to able to set
this per account. Otherwise I have a bit of programming to do that I
would like to avoid.
Ability to migrate all the old e-mail to the new system. This is
currently about 13GB of data, which represents about 7 years of company
use. We are required to maintain 7 years of communication. The reason
it's so big is because we have to deal with idiots that don't know how
to use an sftp server or Dropbox for files and instead send everything
as an attachment. Repeatedly.
A support desk staffed by someone that actually understands things like
SMTP, IMAP, rate limiting, etc.
My current e-mail provider is using Exim for the SMTP server and Dovecot
for the IMAP server, but I don't really care what the replacement
backend runs as long as it works.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Gus Wirth]

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I don’t usually like to recommend the big guy, but in this case: since
you are OK with hosting, gmail seems to be the way to go. It is such a
big player that a large share of your destinations will stay within the
same system, and if there is a technical glitch, they will be on top of
it long before you even know.
One thing: for delivering your mass emails, don’t use your standard mail
service, regardless of which one it is. You risk blacklisting. Instead,
use one of the email delivery services that specialize in mailing lists.
The big names I can think of in that field are ConstantContact, SendGrid
and MailChimp, but there are many more.

The mass mailings originate in our CRM (Customer Resource Management)
system and is incompatible with an external mailer. The e-mail is only
sent out to people who have actively opted in by request. I have the
deliveries throttled down to a low send rate, and we only send about one
mass mailing a month.

I personally have a spam filter set up to mark all ConstantContact
e-mail as spam since anybody I know wouldn't use a service like that.

Gus

[Kevin Keane Subscription]

Of course, moving from Bluehost to Godaddy is probably jumping from the frying pan into the fire when it comes to the issues Gus wanted to address.

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Brian W. <mailto:***@brianwhalen.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 9:02 PM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: RE: Recommendations for e-mail hosting service

 


Godaddy is accessible via imap and webmail as well.

Brian

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I don’t usually like to recommend the big guy, but in this case: since you
are OK with hosting, gmail seems to be the way to go. It is such a big
player that a large share of your destinations will stay within the same
system, and if there is a technical glitch, they will be on top of it long
before you even know.
One thing: for delivering your mass emails, don’t use your standard mail
service, regardless of which one it is. You risk blacklisting. Instead, use
one of the email delivery services that specialize in mailing lists. The
big names I can think of in that field are ConstantContact, SendGrid and
MailChimp, but there are many more.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:37 AM
Subject: Recommendations for e-mail hosting service
My company has it's e-mail hosted at Bluehost, which is actually more of
a web hosting company rather than an e-mail service. Their support is
appalling with idiots at their support desk. They didn't even know that
their SMTP servers were rate limited despite direct evidence from the
logs that they were blocking my connection after sending only 6 messages.
IMAP for dedicated client applications (i.e. Thunderbird)
Web mail for non-dedicated client use
Backups that I can download: daily, weekly, monthly
Raw access to the mail store through ssh/rsync. This is so I can make my
own incremental backups. I would prefer that the mail be maintained in
maildir format to make backups easier.
Ability to send bulk e-mail. My company provides notifications of
training schedules for California Energy Commission sanctioned training.
We have about 1300 subscribers to our list that want to be notified when
new trainings are available.
Copy on send, meaning the SMTP server takes care of placing a copy of
the sent e-mail into the SENT folder of the sender. I know that GMail
can do this but I'm not sure about others. I would like to able to set
this per account. Otherwise I have a bit of programming to do that I
would like to avoid.
Ability to migrate all the old e-mail to the new system. This is
currently about 13GB of data, which represents about 7 years of company
use. We are required to maintain 7 years of communication. The reason
it's so big is because we have to deal with idiots that don't know how
to use an sftp server or Dropbox for files and instead send everything
as an attachment. Repeatedly.
A support desk staffed by someone that actually understands things like
SMTP, IMAP, rate limiting, etc.
My current e-mail provider is using Exim for the SMTP server and Dovecot
for the IMAP server, but I don't really care what the replacement
backend runs as long as it works.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
KPLUG-***@kernel-panic.org
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list