USB protocol analyzer

[Gus Wirth]

I have a very strange situation with an ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard.
When attempting to do an install using a USB 2.0 flash drive I
discovered that the front panel USB connectors (2.0 and 3.0) don't work
with a flash drive, meaning that they don't recognize that a device is
plugged in. However a mouse or keyboard will work perfectly in any of
the USB ports. The USB flash drive works perfectly well in the back
panel ports and in any other computer I have.

To try and eliminate the possibility that the cabling in the case was to
blame, I removed the front panel connectors and tried them on some other
motherboards and they worked just fine. I also tried some other front
panel connectors from another case on the defective board and they failed.

This is actually the third motherboard that I'm testing. The first board
I had to RMA because of a defective PCIe slot and then the next one for
these exact same symptoms.

So either there is some subtle defect in my case arrangement or ASRock
has sent me two defective motherboards in a row. Since the replacement
motherboards were not brand new as far as I could tell, I'm thinking
they are refurbished boards and are truly defective.

What I would like to do is get hold of a USB protocol analyzer for an
hour or so just to prove that I'm not going crazy and that the board is
actually defective. At that point I need to either get all my money back
from ASRock or if it is somehow a problem with my stuff, fix it.

Does anyone know where I can borrow or rent a USB protocol analyzer for
an hour or so? I was thinking of buying one but they are close to a
grand. I could buy a bunch of motherboards for that price.

Gus

[Kevin Keane Subscription]

Check your BIOS settings.

I have seen some systems that have three BIOS settings for USB ports: enabled, disabled, and enabled but disable mass storage devices. It is a security feature in some environments.

Kevin Keane
Whom the IT Pros Call
760-721-8339

-----Original message-----

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: USB protocol analyzer
I have a very strange situation with an ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard.
When attempting to do an install using a USB 2.0 flash drive I
discovered that the front panel USB connectors (2.0 and 3.0) don't work
with a flash drive, meaning that they don't recognize that a device is
plugged in. However a mouse or keyboard will work perfectly in any of
the USB ports. The USB flash drive works perfectly well in the back
panel ports and in any other computer I have.
To try and eliminate the possibility that the cabling in the case was to
blame, I removed the front panel connectors and tried them on some other
motherboards and they worked just fine. I also tried some other front
panel connectors from another case on the defective board and they failed.
This is actually the third motherboard that I'm testing. The first board
I had to RMA because of a defective PCIe slot and then the next one for
these exact same symptoms.
So either there is some subtle defect in my case arrangement or ASRock
has sent me two defective motherboards in a row. Since the replacement
motherboards were not brand new as far as I could tell, I'm thinking
they are refurbished boards and are truly defective.
What I would like to do is get hold of a USB protocol analyzer for an
hour or so just to prove that I'm not going crazy and that the board is
actually defective. At that point I need to either get all my money back
from ASRock or if it is somehow a problem with my stuff, fix it.
Does anyone know where I can borrow or rent a USB protocol analyzer for
an hour or so? I was thinking of buying one but they are close to a
grand. I could buy a bunch of motherboards for that price.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Rich Ernst]

Not sure if this is helpful, but I did run into a motherboard that
would not boot _some_ flash drives from _some_ of the 6 ports on the
back (didn't have any front/internals hooked up).

So possibly that's the issue, or a "feature".. :) not the board itself.

Have you tried several different flash drives, including some USB 3,
even if the ports are USB 2?

Just a thought.

Rich

I have a very strange situation with an ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard. When
attempting to do an install using a USB 2.0 flash drive I discovered that
the front panel USB connectors (2.0 and 3.0) don't work with a flash drive,
meaning that they don't recognize that a device is plugged in. However a
mouse or keyboard will work perfectly in any of the USB ports. The USB flash
drive works perfectly well in the back panel ports and in any other computer
I have.
To try and eliminate the possibility that the cabling in the case was to
blame, I removed the front panel connectors and tried them on some other
motherboards and they worked just fine. I also tried some other front panel
connectors from another case on the defective board and they failed.
This is actually the third motherboard that I'm testing. The first board I
had to RMA because of a defective PCIe slot and then the next one for these
exact same symptoms.
So either there is some subtle defect in my case arrangement or ASRock has
sent me two defective motherboards in a row. Since the replacement
motherboards were not brand new as far as I could tell, I'm thinking they
are refurbished boards and are truly defective.
What I would like to do is get hold of a USB protocol analyzer for an hour
or so just to prove that I'm not going crazy and that the board is actually
defective. At that point I need to either get all my money back from ASRock
or if it is somehow a problem with my stuff, fix it.
Does anyone know where I can borrow or rent a USB protocol analyzer for an
hour or so? I was thinking of buying one but they are close to a grand. I
could buy a bunch of motherboards for that price.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Kevin Keane Subscription]

Looking at teh ASRock Web site, I notice that there is something weird about the front USB ports. https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/J5005-ITX/index.asp#Specification

It says that it has 3 front USB 2.0 ports on two headers, and 2 USB 3.1 ports on one header. And it also says that there is what seems to be a shared header that is both USB 2.0 and 3.1. Maybe simply connecting the cabling to different USB headers helps?

Kevin Keane
Whom the IT Pros Call
760-721-8339

-----Original message-----

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:49 PM
Subject: RE: USB protocol analyzer
Check your BIOS settings.
I have seen some systems that have three BIOS settings for USB ports: enabled, disabled, and enabled but disable mass storage devices. It is a security feature in some environments.
Kevin Keane
Whom the IT Pros Call
760-721-8339
-----Original message-----

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: USB protocol analyzer
I have a very strange situation with an ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard.
When attempting to do an install using a USB 2.0 flash drive I
discovered that the front panel USB connectors (2.0 and 3.0) don't work
with a flash drive, meaning that they don't recognize that a device is
plugged in. However a mouse or keyboard will work perfectly in any of
the USB ports. The USB flash drive works perfectly well in the back
panel ports and in any other computer I have.
To try and eliminate the possibility that the cabling in the case was to
blame, I removed the front panel connectors and tried them on some other
motherboards and they worked just fine. I also tried some other front
panel connectors from another case on the defective board and they failed.
This is actually the third motherboard that I'm testing. The first board
I had to RMA because of a defective PCIe slot and then the next one for
these exact same symptoms.
So either there is some subtle defect in my case arrangement or ASRock
has sent me two defective motherboards in a row. Since the replacement
motherboards were not brand new as far as I could tell, I'm thinking
they are refurbished boards and are truly defective.
What I would like to do is get hold of a USB protocol analyzer for an
hour or so just to prove that I'm not going crazy and that the board is
actually defective. At that point I need to either get all my money back
from ASRock or if it is somehow a problem with my stuff, fix it.
Does anyone know where I can borrow or rent a USB protocol analyzer for
an hour or so? I was thinking of buying one but they are close to a
grand. I could buy a bunch of motherboards for that price.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Tony Su]

Do you really need something besides simply running usbmon?
I haven't done this on Linux, but I've done similar on Windows running
an app that is modeled on the Linux usbmon.

Also,
You might want to dig up the technical specs for your motherboard.
I remember a very, very long time ago a machine I was using could use
a USB port only if the other shared USB port wasn't being used. I have
no idea why that should exist except maybe the usb hub isn't set up to
read more than one device for a physical connection (again, I have no
idea why that should even happen).

So, for example
If you don't have something connected to that second shared port, does
the first port work?

Tony

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 12:08 AM, Kevin Keane Subscription

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Looking at teh ASRock Web site, I notice that there is something weird about the front USB ports. https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/J5005-ITX/index.asp#Specification
It says that it has 3 front USB 2.0 ports on two headers, and 2 USB 3.1 ports on one header. And it also says that there is what seems to be a shared header that is both USB 2.0 and 3.1. Maybe simply connecting the cabling to different USB headers helps?
Kevin Keane
Whom the IT Pros Call
760-721-8339
-----Original message-----

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 11:49 PM
Subject: RE: USB protocol analyzer
Check your BIOS settings.
I have seen some systems that have three BIOS settings for USB ports: enabled, disabled, and enabled but disable mass storage devices. It is a security feature in some environments.
Kevin Keane
Whom the IT Pros Call
760-721-8339
-----Original message-----

Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 2:00 PM
Subject: USB protocol analyzer
I have a very strange situation with an ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard.
When attempting to do an install using a USB 2.0 flash drive I
discovered that the front panel USB connectors (2.0 and 3.0) don't work
with a flash drive, meaning that they don't recognize that a device is
plugged in. However a mouse or keyboard will work perfectly in any of
the USB ports. The USB flash drive works perfectly well in the back
panel ports and in any other computer I have.
To try and eliminate the possibility that the cabling in the case was to
blame, I removed the front panel connectors and tried them on some other
motherboards and they worked just fine. I also tried some other front
panel connectors from another case on the defective board and they failed.
This is actually the third motherboard that I'm testing. The first board
I had to RMA because of a defective PCIe slot and then the next one for
these exact same symptoms.
So either there is some subtle defect in my case arrangement or ASRock
has sent me two defective motherboards in a row. Since the replacement
motherboards were not brand new as far as I could tell, I'm thinking
they are refurbished boards and are truly defective.
What I would like to do is get hold of a USB protocol analyzer for an
hour or so just to prove that I'm not going crazy and that the board is
actually defective. At that point I need to either get all my money back
from ASRock or if it is somehow a problem with my stuff, fix it.
Does anyone know where I can borrow or rent a USB protocol analyzer for
an hour or so? I was thinking of buying one but they are close to a
grand. I could buy a bunch of motherboards for that price.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Dante Lanznaster]

Have you tried running Wireshark to see what pops up? It does USB capture
via usbpcap.

-d

Post by Gus Wirth
I have a very strange situation with an ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard.
When attempting to do an install using a USB 2.0 flash drive I
discovered that the front panel USB connectors (2.0 and 3.0) don't work
with a flash drive, meaning that they don't recognize that a device is
plugged in. However a mouse or keyboard will work perfectly in any of
the USB ports. The USB flash drive works perfectly well in the back
panel ports and in any other computer I have.
To try and eliminate the possibility that the cabling in the case was to
blame, I removed the front panel connectors and tried them on some other
motherboards and they worked just fine. I also tried some other front
panel connectors from another case on the defective board and they failed.
This is actually the third motherboard that I'm testing. The first board
I had to RMA because of a defective PCIe slot and then the next one for
these exact same symptoms.
So either there is some subtle defect in my case arrangement or ASRock
has sent me two defective motherboards in a row. Since the replacement
motherboards were not brand new as far as I could tell, I'm thinking
they are refurbished boards and are truly defective.
What I would like to do is get hold of a USB protocol analyzer for an
hour or so just to prove that I'm not going crazy and that the board is
actually defective. At that point I need to either get all my money back
from ASRock or if it is somehow a problem with my stuff, fix it.
Does anyone know where I can borrow or rent a USB protocol analyzer for
an hour or so? I was thinking of buying one but they are close to a
grand. I could buy a bunch of motherboards for that price.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Andrew P. Lentvorski]

Gus,

Do you still need an analyzer?  I have an Ellisys USB Explorer sitting
on my desk you can borrow.  I probably haven't used it in years.

-a

Post by Gus Wirth
I have a very strange situation with an ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard.
When attempting to do an install using a USB 2.0 flash drive I
discovered that the front panel USB connectors (2.0 and 3.0) don't
work with a flash drive, meaning that they don't recognize that a
device is plugged in. However a mouse or keyboard will work perfectly
in any of the USB ports. The USB flash drive works perfectly well in
the back panel ports and in any other computer I have.
To try and eliminate the possibility that the cabling in the case was
to blame, I removed the front panel connectors and tried them on some
other motherboards and they worked just fine. I also tried some other
front panel connectors from another case on the defective board and
they failed.
This is actually the third motherboard that I'm testing. The first
board I had to RMA because of a defective PCIe slot and then the next
one for these exact same symptoms.
So either there is some subtle defect in my case arrangement or ASRock
has sent me two defective motherboards in a row. Since the replacement
motherboards were not brand new as far as I could tell, I'm thinking
they are refurbished boards and are truly defective.
What I would like to do is get hold of a USB protocol analyzer for an
hour or so just to prove that I'm not going crazy and that the board
is actually defective. At that point I need to either get all my money
back from ASRock or if it is somehow a problem with my stuff, fix  it.
Does anyone know where I can borrow or rent a USB protocol analyzer
for an hour or so? I was thinking of buying one but they are close to
a grand. I could buy a bunch of motherboards for that price.
Gus

[Gus Wirth]

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
Gus,
Do you still need an analyzer?  I have an Ellisys USB Explorer sitting
on my desk you can borrow.  I probably haven't used it in years.

That would be great! Where can I pick it up?

I've been getting all these suggestions on how to troubleshoot using
Linux but that doesn't help when you can't even get past the UEFI BIOS.
The first and second boards I had said Version 1.0 EVALUATION copy. This
latest board is version 1.4. I'm not sure how a production board could
be released with an evaluation copy of a BIOS.

Gus

[Dante Lanznaster]

You said the flash drive worked fine when using the back ports. Can't you
do an install that way and run tests via OS ?

Post by Gus Wirth

Gus,
Do you still need an analyzer? I have an Ellisys USB Explorer sitting
on my desk you can borrow. I probably haven't used it in years.

That would be great! Where can I pick it up?
I've been getting all these suggestions on how to troubleshoot using
Linux but that doesn't help when you can't even get past the UEFI BIOS.
The first and second boards I had said Version 1.0 EVALUATION copy. This
latest board is version 1.4. I'm not sure how a production board could
be released with an evaluation copy of a BIOS.
Gus
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Gus Wirth]

Post by Dante Lanznaster
You said the flash drive worked fine when using the back ports. Can't you
do an install that way and run tests via OS ?

That doesn't tell me anything about voltages, timing, power handoff,
etc. all of which are physical characteristics of the interface and not
exposed by software interface.

USB has been around so long that we now take it for granted that it
"just works". But if you dig into the specs of the implementation you
can see how complicated it is. The original USB 2.0 spec is 650 pages long.

I don't know if Barry is still on the list but he and others can
certainly relate horror stories about USB implementations.

Gus

[Andrew P. Lentvorski]

It's even worse than this.  USB has actually gone backwards.

Modern motherboards actually can't handle as many USB devices as older
ones. It takes more endpoints per device with 3.0 than it did with 2.0
but the number of endpoints in the chipsets has stayed the same.

The upshot is that you max out at about half the number of devices on a
3.0 controller as you did on a 2.0 controller.

-a

Post by Gus Wirth

Post by Dante Lanznaster
You said the flash drive worked fine when using the back ports. Can't you
do an install that way and run tests via OS ?

That doesn't tell me anything about voltages, timing, power handoff,
etc. all of which are physical characteristics of the interface and
not exposed by software interface.
USB has been around so long that we now take it for granted that it
"just works". But if you dig into the specs of the implementation you
can see how complicated it is. The original USB 2.0 spec is 650 pages long.
I don't know if Barry is still on the list but he and others can
certainly relate horror stories about USB implementations.
Gus