(no subject)

[Rich Ernst]

No, it's not the USB 2.0

You have to turn protected boot or whatever it is to let a windows
machine boot from something else entirely.

Does this system have a CD/DVD drive at all?

Also, you may have to fiddle with IDE/AHCI and MBR/UEFI to get it to
allow it to boot from the use drive. Or any other drive, including
discs.

Rich

My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in my
old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it still
boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just now,
I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old laptop.
It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?
--
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[Kevin Keane Subscription]

It sounds like the goal for you is to preserve your option to return to Windows 10, before reformatting the laptop for Linux?

 
In that case, you really have three options.

 
Option 1) Buy a copy of Windows. Seriously. The copy that’s preinstalled is not meant to ever be restored from backup. What used to be a fresh install today is a “Factory Reset”. But if that doesn’t work (because you erased Windows 10, for instance), a new copy of Windows is the standard way to do it.

 
Option 2) Get an external hard disk the same size as the internal one (or larger). Boot into Linux. Use dd to copy the internal hard disk to the external one. If you want to go back, you *should* be able to restore Windows 10 simply by using dd to go back.

 
Option 3) This is the one I’d recommend. Get a new hard disk or SSD. Replace the one in your laptop, and put it away. Your old hard disk *is* your backup. Keep in mind that SSDs only have a shelf life of a year or so before they start losing their data.

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Rafael Shumaker <mailto:***@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:31 PM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: (no subject)

 


I just bought a new laptop. It has Windows 10, using around 40G on a SSD. I
would like to make a good backup of it before I do much more. I've already
made a few changes, but nothing drastic so far. Along with it, I bought an
external blu-ray drive, and some discs. I have not installed the burner
software that came with the blu-ray drive. But that software is for Windows
and Mac anyway. And I'm thinking I'd like to boot up with a Linux USB stick
to do the backup (partly because I haven't touched Windows for years and
wouldn't know how to do it from there, even if it has the way to do it). I
haven't even tried yet to boot from USB. And I'm not sure I even know how
to get into the boot menu on it. Also, I don't exactly recall how to do a
full backup from Linux. I don't think I want dd, since there may be Windows
files scattered around the SSD, and would not want to grab all the empty
space, unless dd can do compression (I just don't remember). But whatever
backup method I use, I would like the result to fit on a single blu-ray
disc, with the restoration able to restore even the partition table and
boot sector.

--
KPLUG-***@kernel-panic.org
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Rich Ernst]

I like option 3, good one, SSDs have come down so low in price these
days for non-largest capacities.

re: Option 1, usually, there's an option in the factory reset (either
from within windows, or at boot with special keystroke) to create the
media (typically USB flash drive these days) so you could reinstall to
factory with brand new/blanked drive. Check out the option, good to
create regardless of what you do with the system. While under
warranty, call or email them and ask how to create reinstall media.

Rich

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 10:02 PM, Kevin Keane Subscription

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
It sounds like the goal for you is to preserve your option to return to Windows 10, before reformatting the laptop for Linux?
In that case, you really have three options.
Option 1) Buy a copy of Windows. Seriously. The copy that’s preinstalled is not meant to ever be restored from backup. What used to be a fresh install today is a “Factory Reset”. But if that doesn’t work (because you erased Windows 10, for instance), a new copy of Windows is the standard way to do it.
Option 2) Get an external hard disk the same size as the internal one (or larger). Boot into Linux. Use dd to copy the internal hard disk to the external one. If you want to go back, you *should* be able to restore Windows 10 simply by using dd to go back.
Option 3) This is the one I’d recommend. Get a new hard disk or SSD. Replace the one in your laptop, and put it away. Your old hard disk *is* your backup. Keep in mind that SSDs only have a shelf life of a year or so before they start losing their data.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2018 8:31 PM
Subject: (no subject)
I just bought a new laptop. It has Windows 10, using around 40G on a SSD. I
would like to make a good backup of it before I do much more. I've already
made a few changes, but nothing drastic so far. Along with it, I bought an
external blu-ray drive, and some discs. I have not installed the burner
software that came with the blu-ray drive. But that software is for Windows
and Mac anyway. And I'm thinking I'd like to boot up with a Linux USB stick
to do the backup (partly because I haven't touched Windows for years and
wouldn't know how to do it from there, even if it has the way to do it). I
haven't even tried yet to boot from USB. And I'm not sure I even know how
to get into the boot menu on it. Also, I don't exactly recall how to do a
full backup from Linux. I don't think I want dd, since there may be Windows
files scattered around the SSD, and would not want to grab all the empty
space, unless dd can do compression (I just don't remember). But whatever
backup method I use, I would like the result to fit on a single blu-ray
disc, with the restoration able to restore even the partition table and
boot sector.
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Robert Donovan]

Correction, I was NOT able to re run the reset program with the 32GB drive.
Sorry, poor proof reading.

If I am reading your message right, you are looking to be able to
reinstall WIn10 at some point if need be. Most laptops that come with
WIndows10 have an option to create a reset disc in the start menu for
creating a flash drive to restore your system to factory defaults. It is
one of the things that folks like Lenovo and Dell recommend you do before
anything else.
One important caveat: it seems, on my system, it will let you run it only
once, and when I tried it on my Lenovo, Win10 said I needed a 16GB flash
drive. Which I had in the USB port. That was all it said, that I needed the
16GB of free space. What it did not say,and what I forgot beacuse I use
Windows so seldom, is that FAT32 sector size inefficiencies result in Win10
only seeing 14.5 GB on a 16GB flash drive. I clicked Create Reset Drive,
and a message saying there was a problem with creating the reset drive.
When I figured out that 16GB was too small and got a 32GB drive to try
again. It would let me run the reset program again.
I used DD to image the drive to an external disk, but couldn't get that
image to work, I suspect because of some DRM nonsense in the encrypted
partition wherein the Windows files are held. Still trying to figure that
part out.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I just bought a new laptop. It has Windows 10, using around 40G on a SSD.
I
would like to make a good backup of it before I do much more. I've already
made a few changes, but nothing drastic so far. Along with it, I bought an
external blu-ray drive, and some discs. I have not installed the burner
software that came with the blu-ray drive. But that software is for
Windows
and Mac anyway. And I'm thinking I'd like to boot up with a Linux USB
stick
to do the backup (partly because I haven't touched Windows for years and
wouldn't know how to do it from there, even if it has the way to do it). I
haven't even tried yet to boot from USB. And I'm not sure I even know how
to get into the boot menu on it. Also, I don't exactly recall how to do a
full backup from Linux. I don't think I want dd, since there may be
Windows
files scattered around the SSD, and would not want to grab all the empty
space, unless dd can do compression (I just don't remember). But whatever
backup method I use, I would like the result to fit on a single blu-ray
disc, with the restoration able to restore even the partition table and
boot sector.
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Rich Ernst]

Again, research how to create recovery/reinstall media on your
particular laptop.

A call/chat with mfg should get it for you if a google search doesn't do it.

Often you can do it right from Windows.

If not, there's most likely a special set of keys to hold down as soon
as you power up so it'll boot to the recovery partition.

THAT is the solution.

Rich

I don't actually intend to reinstall later, or to uninstall at all. My
previous laptop has Windows 7. At some point, it went wonky (possibly a
virus). I never touched the Windows on it after that, but still use the
hard drive in it for files I create while using Knoppix on that old laptop.
Ultimately, I just want to have some kind of a safeguard for the original
Windows 10 files on the new one, even though I was thinking "what if I need
to reinstall the files". I don't intend to use Windows unless I have to.
The new laptop came with a subscription to Macafee virus protection suite.
I uninstalled that and put WebRoot instead (which was a separate purchase,
and can be installed on up to 5 machines, and the old laptop will be the
second). So, on second thought, I suppose all I really need is a good
backup of all the files (unless something happens to the boot sector, or
whatever Windows is using for that these days).

Post by Robert Donovan
Correction, I was NOT able to re run the reset program with the 32GB drive.
Sorry, poor proof reading.

If I am reading your message right, you are looking to be able to
reinstall WIn10 at some point if need be. Most laptops that come with
WIndows10 have an option to create a reset disc in the start menu for
creating a flash drive to restore your system to factory defaults. It is
one of the things that folks like Lenovo and Dell recommend you do before
anything else.
One important caveat: it seems, on my system, it will let you run it only
once, and when I tried it on my Lenovo, Win10 said I needed a 16GB flash
drive. Which I had in the USB port. That was all it said, that I needed

the

16GB of free space. What it did not say,and what I forgot beacuse I use
Windows so seldom, is that FAT32 sector size inefficiencies result in

Win10

only seeing 14.5 GB on a 16GB flash drive. I clicked Create Reset Drive,
and a message saying there was a problem with creating the reset drive.
When I figured out that 16GB was too small and got a 32GB drive to try
again. It would let me run the reset program again.
I used DD to image the drive to an external disk, but couldn't get that
image to work, I suspect because of some DRM nonsense in the encrypted
partition wherein the Windows files are held. Still trying to figure that
part out.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I just bought a new laptop. It has Windows 10, using around 40G on a

SSD.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I
would like to make a good backup of it before I do much more. I've

already

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
made a few changes, but nothing drastic so far. Along with it, I bought

an

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
external blu-ray drive, and some discs. I have not installed the burner
software that came with the blu-ray drive. But that software is for
Windows
and Mac anyway. And I'm thinking I'd like to boot up with a Linux USB
stick
to do the backup (partly because I haven't touched Windows for years and
wouldn't know how to do it from there, even if it has the way to do

it). I

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
haven't even tried yet to boot from USB. And I'm not sure I even know

how

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
to get into the boot menu on it. Also, I don't exactly recall how to do

a

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
full backup from Linux. I don't think I want dd, since there may be
Windows
files scattered around the SSD, and would not want to grab all the empty
space, unless dd can do compression (I just don't remember). But

whatever

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
backup method I use, I would like the result to fit on a single blu-ray
disc, with the restoration able to restore even the partition table and
boot sector.
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Tony Su]

Win7 (and later) can create recovery media, it's in the system. From
that, you can point to any backup created by Windows. Home editions
often do not have Windows Backup capability so you may need to use a
3rd party.

That said, you can think of a "Good Backup" as two main parts... The
obvious image or files of what is backed up, and what you need to
restore and run the system once the backup has been written to a
location.

So,
For instance if you intend to forever run your system as a dual-boot,
then you don't really need bootable recovery media, you only need to
continue to rely on your Linux bootloader to point to your recovered
files. In this case, then you can use anything that simply writes the
backup to the proper location, examples include the dd utility,
imaging like Clonezilla, a simple file-for-file copy to another
location, more.

Tony

Post by Rich Ernst
Again, research how to create recovery/reinstall media on your
particular laptop.
A call/chat with mfg should get it for you if a google search doesn't do it.
Often you can do it right from Windows.
If not, there's most likely a special set of keys to hold down as soon
as you power up so it'll boot to the recovery partition.
THAT is the solution.
Rich

I don't actually intend to reinstall later, or to uninstall at all. My
previous laptop has Windows 7. At some point, it went wonky (possibly a
virus). I never touched the Windows on it after that, but still use the
hard drive in it for files I create while using Knoppix on that old laptop.
Ultimately, I just want to have some kind of a safeguard for the original
Windows 10 files on the new one, even though I was thinking "what if I need
to reinstall the files". I don't intend to use Windows unless I have to.
The new laptop came with a subscription to Macafee virus protection suite.
I uninstalled that and put WebRoot instead (which was a separate purchase,
and can be installed on up to 5 machines, and the old laptop will be the
second). So, on second thought, I suppose all I really need is a good
backup of all the files (unless something happens to the boot sector, or
whatever Windows is using for that these days).

Post by Robert Donovan
Correction, I was NOT able to re run the reset program with the 32GB drive.
Sorry, poor proof reading.

If I am reading your message right, you are looking to be able to
reinstall WIn10 at some point if need be. Most laptops that come with
WIndows10 have an option to create a reset disc in the start menu for
creating a flash drive to restore your system to factory defaults. It is
one of the things that folks like Lenovo and Dell recommend you do before
anything else.
One important caveat: it seems, on my system, it will let you run it only
once, and when I tried it on my Lenovo, Win10 said I needed a 16GB flash
drive. Which I had in the USB port. That was all it said, that I needed

the

16GB of free space. What it did not say,and what I forgot beacuse I use
Windows so seldom, is that FAT32 sector size inefficiencies result in

Win10

only seeing 14.5 GB on a 16GB flash drive. I clicked Create Reset Drive,
and a message saying there was a problem with creating the reset drive.
When I figured out that 16GB was too small and got a 32GB drive to try
again. It would let me run the reset program again.
I used DD to image the drive to an external disk, but couldn't get that
image to work, I suspect because of some DRM nonsense in the encrypted
partition wherein the Windows files are held. Still trying to figure that
part out.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I just bought a new laptop. It has Windows 10, using around 40G on a

SSD.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I
would like to make a good backup of it before I do much more. I've

already

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
made a few changes, but nothing drastic so far. Along with it, I bought

an

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
external blu-ray drive, and some discs. I have not installed the burner
software that came with the blu-ray drive. But that software is for
Windows
and Mac anyway. And I'm thinking I'd like to boot up with a Linux USB
stick
to do the backup (partly because I haven't touched Windows for years and
wouldn't know how to do it from there, even if it has the way to do

it). I

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
haven't even tried yet to boot from USB. And I'm not sure I even know

how

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
to get into the boot menu on it. Also, I don't exactly recall how to do

a

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
full backup from Linux. I don't think I want dd, since there may be
Windows
files scattered around the SSD, and would not want to grab all the empty
space, unless dd can do compression (I just don't remember). But

whatever

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
backup method I use, I would like the result to fit on a single blu-ray
disc, with the restoration able to restore even the partition table and
boot sector.
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[David Brown]

My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in my
old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it still
boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just now,
I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old laptop.
It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?

Assuming a new laptop, it may be that the laptop is configured to only
boot UEFI, or possibly to require a signed boot image. I'm not sure
if the Knoppix images have a signed bootloader. You might be able to
affect these settings in the firmware's configuration (usually called BIOS
settings).

Look for something like secure boot, or "legacy".

Also, what kind of laptop is it?

USB 2.0 shouldn't be a problem, other than making the boot slower.

David

[Rafael Shumaker]

I did see something about UEFI in the bios on the USB stick. That must be
it, because I don't think such a thing existed back then (Knoppix 6.7,
IIRC). It says "UEFI: Staples, Position 1". I don't see anything in here
about legacy booting, even in the advanced booting options. Perhaps I just
don't know where to look.

The laptop is Asus, 17-inch, Republic of Gamers (and heavy), model GL703V,
256G SSD, 1T HDD, 16G RAM, ...

The Knoppix is old, but configured the way I want it. I'm downloading
(torrent) the latest version (if it ever has enough defers for the final
pieces, stalled at 94%), and will put it onto a 32G USB stick (the smallest
USB 3.0 stick I could find at the time).

Bios is American Megatrends, ©2017, version 1.01.0040

My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in my
old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it

still

boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just

now,

I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old

laptop.

It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?

Assuming a new laptop, it may be that the laptop is configured to only
boot UEFI, or possibly to require a signed boot image. I'm not sure
if the Knoppix images have a signed bootloader. You might be able to
affect these settings in the firmware's configuration (usually called BIOS
settings).
Look for something like secure boot, or "legacy".
Also, what kind of laptop is it?
USB 2.0 shouldn't be a problem, other than making the boot slower.
David
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Gus Wirth]

Post by David Brown

My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in my
old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it still
boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just now,
I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old laptop.
It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?

Assuming a new laptop, it may be that the laptop is configured to only
boot UEFI, or possibly to require a signed boot image. I'm not sure
if the Knoppix images have a signed bootloader. You might be able to
affect these settings in the firmware's configuration (usually called BIOS
settings).
Look for something like secure boot, or "legacy".
Also, what kind of laptop is it?
USB 2.0 shouldn't be a problem, other than making the boot slower.

The problem is related to UEFI and Knoppix. Up until the latest Knoppix
8.x release (8.2 as I write this) Knoppix would only create a legacy
BIOS bootable USB flash drive, meaning versions prior to 8.x could only
boot on a system that had either a legacy BIOS or a UEFI with
compatibility mode, meaning it would act like a legacy BIOS.

To demonstrate, plug in the old Knoppix USB flash drive and do:

$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdd
Disk /dev/sdd: 7.5 GiB, 8021606400 bytes, 15667200 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x43c68653

Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sdd1 * 2048 15667199 15665152 7.5G c W95 FAT32 (LBA)

Choose the correct device by using "dmesg" to see what the assigned
device was. It should be the last entry in the dmesg output. The above
results are for Knoppix 7.7 DVD version that used the Knoppix utility to
put Knoppix on the flash drive.

Now see what happens with Knoppix 8.2. It turns out that Knoppix is now
created in a hybrid ISO9660 format which allows you to directly dd the
image file to a USB flash drive and have the flash drive properly
partitioned and formatted including the UEFI bits need to boot properly
on a UEFI system without the legacy BIOS support. Here's what I get when
I dd the Knoppix 8.2 DVD image file to an 8GB flash drive:

$ sudo fdisk -l /dev/sdd
Disk /dev/sdd: 7.5 GiB, 8039432192 bytes, 15702016 sectors
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x6a2a1840

Device Boot Start End Sectors Size Id Type
/dev/sdd1 * 64 9135503 9135440 4.4G 0 Empty
/dev/sdd2 9135504 9166223 30720 15M ef EFI (FAT-12/16/32)
/dev/sdd3 9166224 9174415 8192 4M 83 Linux

Notice there is now a dedicated FAT32 partition for the UEFI support
need by the BIOS. You can see information about the partitions like this:

$ sudo blkid /dev/sdd1
/dev/sdd1: UUID="2018-05-15-01-26-08-00" LABEL="KNOPPIX_8"
TYPE="iso9660" PARTUUID="6a2a1840-01"

$ sudo blkid /dev/sdd2
/dev/sdd2: SEC_TYPE="msdos" LABEL="UEFI" UUID="6C9B-EF22" TYPE="vfat"
PARTUUID="6a2a1840-02"

$ sudo blkid /dev/sdd3
/dev/sdd3: LABEL="KNOPPIX-DATA"
UUID="944e587a-c511-4d09-ba21-62e4dc0901c7" TYPE="reiserfs"
PARTUUID="6a2a1840-03"

Since I am using an 8GB flash drive there is room left over to create
another partition for data if you so choose.

One thing to note is that the Knoppix 8.2 seems to be having some issues
with XWindows that I haven't figured out yet but it will boot to at
least a command line.

Another alternative would be to use a live distribution other than
Knoppix, say Lubuntu. It will look almost like Knoppix since it uses the
LXDE desktop and gives a better ability to remain current.

Gus

[Gus Wirth]

On 05/27/2018 06:06 PM, Gus Wirth wrote:
[snip]

Post by Gus Wirth
One thing to note is that the Knoppix 8.2 seems to be having some issues
with XWindows that I haven't figured out yet but it will boot to at
least a command line.

Based on some further testing I would recommend Knoppix 8.1 for the time
being. It has a slightly older kernel but that shouldn't make too much
of a difference. There is a problem with XWindows in 8.2 that I can't
resolve yet but 8.1 works fine and will give you the UEFI boot capability.

Gus

[Rafael Shumaker]

That sounds good for now. I will get v8.1 as soon as I can. But I won't be
going through their torrent to get it. Both v8.1 and v8.2 are currently
stalled at around 98%. I don't understand why they won't complete.

On another front, I'm in the BIOS, and found something about legacy in
Advanced/USB Configuration. Legacy USB Support is Enabled. The only other
item here is USB Mass Storage Driver Support, which is also Enabled.

But under Boot Configuration, Fast Boot is also Enabled, though switching
now to Disabled. But that had no impact.

Under Security, there is the item Secure Boot. It has an item Secure Boot
Control, which is Enabled. Could this be part of the problem?

When first booting up, if I continually hit [Esc], I get the option to
select boot device. Of course, Windows Boot Manager is the first item
listed, despite being listed second in the boot sequence in the BIOS. But
the USB stick is listed second. While here, if I select the USB stick, the
screen blanks for a fraction of a second and comes right back to this menu.
(The third item in the menu is Enter Setup.)

Interesting side note: here, in this boot menu, the USB stick is listed as
"UEFI: Staples, Partition 1", even though it certainly is not UEFI. And in
the BIOS, the Boot Priority does indeed list this item first.

So even with Legacy support Enabled, and Fast boot Disabled, it STILL
refuses to boot the old KNOPPIX USB boot stick.


On May 27, 2018 22:29, "Gus Wirth" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

On 05/27/2018 06:06 PM, Gus Wirth wrote:
[snip]

Post by Gus Wirth
One thing to note is that the Knoppix 8.2 seems to be having some issues
with XWindows that I haven't figured out yet but it will boot to at
least a command line.

Based on some further testing I would recommend Knoppix 8.1 for the time
being. It has a slightly older kernel but that shouldn't make too much
of a difference. There is a problem with XWindows in 8.2 that I can't
resolve yet but 8.1 works fine and will give you the UEFI boot capability.


Gus

[Gus Wirth]

On 05/31/2018 09:51 AM, Rafael Shumaker wrote:
[snip]

Post by Rafael Shumaker
Under Security, there is the item Secure Boot. It has an item Secure Boot
Control, which is Enabled. Could this be part of the problem?

[snip]

Most definitely yes. Turn that off and try again.

You can do a direct download of Knoppix 8.1 and 8.2 from here:

ftp://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppix-dvd/

Gus

[Gus Wirth]

On 05/31/2018 09:51 AM, Rafael Shumaker wrote:
[snip]

Post by Rafael Shumaker
Interesting side note: here, in this boot menu, the USB stick is listed as
"UEFI: Staples, Partition 1", even though it certainly is not UEFI. And in
the BIOS, the Boot Priority does indeed list this item first.
So even with Legacy support Enabled, and Fast boot Disabled, it STILL
refuses to boot the old KNOPPIX USB boot stick.

In my previous examination of the Knoppix 7 USB I failed to consider
that the entire USB stick might be considered as the EFI partition since
it is formatted as FAT32 and can be used to boot from EFI. So there is
actually an EFI directory on the Knoppix 7 USB flash drive that is used
for EFI booting.

$ ls
boot efi index.html KNOPPIX ldlinux.c32 ldlinux.sys

$ ls efi/boot/
BOOTIA32.efi BOOTX64.efi hashtool.efi keytool.efi ldlinux.e32
ldlinux.e64 loader.efi

Sorry about that. I'm just so used to turning off EFI that I didn't
consider the obvious.

Gus

[Gus Wirth]

Post by Rafael Shumaker
So even with Legacy support Enabled, and Fast boot Disabled, it STILL
refuses to boot the old KNOPPIX USB boot stick.

This may seem to be a bizarre recommendation, but have you tried using
the USB stick in each of the USB sockets on the laptop?

The reason I ask is that I just got a new ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard
for my HTPC. The board refused to boot from USB no matter what I did. I
was using the front panel USB connections for my flash drive. In a fit
of desperation I tried using the connections on the motherboard on the
back of the PC and _amazing_ it worked. For some reason the UEFI BIOS
only checks the first four USB ports which happen to be on the motherboard.

If your laptop has multiple USB ports it may be that it has a similar
bad BIOS that only checks one or two of the USB ports for a boot device.

Gus

[Rafael Shumaker]

Interesting. I don't recall if it was always in the same port. IIRC, there
are two ports in the left side and two on the right. And I think I may have
used two of them, one on either side. I'll try each one.

Post by Gus Wirth

Post by Rafael Shumaker
So even with Legacy support Enabled, and Fast boot Disabled, it STILL
refuses to boot the old KNOPPIX USB boot stick.

This may seem to be a bizarre recommendation, but have you tried using
the USB stick in each of the USB sockets on the laptop?
The reason I ask is that I just got a new ASRock J5005-ITX motherboard
for my HTPC. The board refused to boot from USB no matter what I did. I
was using the front panel USB connections for my flash drive. In a fit
of desperation I tried using the connections on the motherboard on the
back of the PC and _amazing_ it worked. For some reason the UEFI BIOS
only checks the first four USB ports which happen to be on the motherboard.
If your laptop has multiple USB ports it may be that it has a similar
bad BIOS that only checks one or two of the USB ports for a boot device.
Gus
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[Rafael Shumaker]

As stated from the beginning, though perhaps not clearly, I bought an
external blu-ray writer.

And, because of one suggestion here, I also bought an external HDD (1T).

Post by Rich Ernst
No, it's not the USB 2.0
You have to turn protected boot or whatever it is to let a windows
machine boot from something else entirely.
Does this system have a CD/DVD drive at all?
Also, you may have to fiddle with IDE/AHCI and MBR/UEFI to get it to
allow it to boot from the use drive. Or any other drive, including
discs.
Rich

My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in my
old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it

still

boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just

now,

I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old

laptop.

It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?
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[Tony Su]

When you see your described problem, then depending on exactly what
you see and there probably <are> some kind of errors printed to the
screen,
- Your USB stick wasn't recognized, which might be due to various
things like recognizing an active partition (assuming MBR)
- Your grub entry on your USB stick doesn't point to a partition on
your hard drive successfully. Can be due to a very large number of
possible causes like drive wasn't mounted, partition labeling not
conformant, partition doesn't exist, looking at wrong drive, etc.
- UEFI and gpt may be an issue, YMMV.
- Try unplugging unnecessary devices like your BR writer, it may have
changed your system's disk order.

I'm not familiar using Knoppix to boot something, but it stands to
reason that you should start with booting your Knoppix entirely and
then inspecting what and how Knoppix can see.

Tony

Post by Rafael Shumaker
As stated from the beginning, though perhaps not clearly, I bought an
external blu-ray writer.
And, because of one suggestion here, I also bought an external HDD (1T).

Post by Rich Ernst
No, it's not the USB 2.0
You have to turn protected boot or whatever it is to let a windows
machine boot from something else entirely.
Does this system have a CD/DVD drive at all?
Also, you may have to fiddle with IDE/AHCI and MBR/UEFI to get it to
allow it to boot from the use drive. Or any other drive, including
discs.
Rich

My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in my
old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it

still

boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just

now,

I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old

laptop.

It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?
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[Rafael Shumaker]

I don't have the BR writer plugged in unless I need to access a DVD or CD.

The USB stick with Knoppix does show up in the BIOS. But even though I tell
the BIOS to put it first in the boot sequence, nothing shows up from it on
the screen during boot. It skips the stick and goes to the second item in
the boot sequence, Windows, on the SSD. But the Knoppix boot stick still
works fine in the older laptop. I'm inclined to belief that it is an issue
about UEFI. I just don't know how to get around it.

I seem to recall something in the BIOS about fast boot. It may be that this
option is hiding any output about a problem with the boot stick?

If there is something in the BIOS that allows Legacy booting, I have not
seen it.

I want to use this machine, but would prefer not to touch Whendoze unless I
have to. I have used Knoppix for quite a while now, and like it. I have
also used Red Hat in the past, and liked it too.

As far as I recall, Knoppix does not concern itself with alternate boot
options. It pretty much assumes that whenever it is first in the boot
order, you must want it to be the one booting. Whether you boot it from a
CD, DVD, or USB stick, it assumes that if you don't want to boot from it,
then you will eject that CD, DVD, or USB stick before booting. Knoppix was
designed for booting from such media. In fact, last I knew, it performs
very badly if you install it to the hard drive.




On May 23, 2018 10:21, "Tony Su" <***@su-networking.com> wrote:

When you see your described problem, then depending on exactly what
you see and there probably <are> some kind of errors printed to the
screen,
- Your USB stick wasn't recognized, which might be due to various
things like recognizing an active partition (assuming MBR)
- Your grub entry on your USB stick doesn't point to a partition on
your hard drive successfully. Can be due to a very large number of
possible causes like drive wasn't mounted, partition labeling not
conformant, partition doesn't exist, looking at wrong drive, etc.
- UEFI and gpt may be an issue, YMMV.
- Try unplugging unnecessary devices like your BR writer, it may have
changed your system's disk order.

I'm not familiar using Knoppix to boot something, but it stands to
reason that you should start with booting your Knoppix entirely and
then inspecting what and how Knoppix can see.


Tony

Post by Rafael Shumaker
As stated from the beginning, though perhaps not clearly, I bought an
external blu-ray writer.
And, because of one suggestion here, I also bought an external HDD (1T).

Post by Rich Ernst
No, it's not the USB 2.0
You have to turn protected boot or whatever it is to let a windows
machine boot from something else entirely.
Does this system have a CD/DVD drive at all?
Also, you may have to fiddle with IDE/AHCI and MBR/UEFI to get it to
allow it to boot from the use drive. Or any other drive, including
discs.
Rich

My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in my
old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it

still

boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just

now,

I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old

laptop.

It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?
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[Rich Ernst]

Do you want an image of the system as a backup, or just back up files?

If you want an image, I recommend buying a Seagate or WD external hard
drive (LOTS easier than CD/DVD/Blue ray). Then you can get the FREE
imaging software from the appropriate company (it's a lite version of
the Acronis software), and make an image of the system to the external
drive. It WILL check that you have one of their drives attached to
the system even via usb or it won't work.

It ONLY backs up data/files, I've not used on a Linux partition in a
LONG while, but you might have to do the sector by sector backup to
accomplish that. Then it'll image the blank space as well, but it
uses compression to save the image so most likely it won't make a much
larger file(s) for the image itself.

You could do the image of all but Linux partitions, then image ONLY
the Linux partitions using the sector by sector option.

Just files/data backup is a different issue and has different solutions.

Rich

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
I just bought a new laptop. It has Windows 10, using around 40G on a SSD. I
would like to make a good backup of it before I do much more. I've already
made a few changes, but nothing drastic so far. Along with it, I bought an
external blu-ray drive, and some discs. I have not installed the burner
software that came with the blu-ray drive. But that software is for Windows
and Mac anyway. And I'm thinking I'd like to boot up with a Linux USB stick
to do the backup (partly because I haven't touched Windows for years and
wouldn't know how to do it from there, even if it has the way to do it). I
haven't even tried yet to boot from USB. And I'm not sure I even know how
to get into the boot menu on it. Also, I don't exactly recall how to do a
full backup from Linux. I don't think I want dd, since there may be Windows
files scattered around the SSD, and would not want to grab all the empty
space, unless dd can do compression (I just don't remember). But whatever
backup method I use, I would like the result to fit on a single blu-ray
disc, with the restoration able to restore even the partition table and
boot sector.
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[Kevin Keane Subscription]

How is the USB boot stick partitioned?

 
Generally, there are 3 ways a system can boot from USB.

 
1. BIOS.

2a) UEFI

2b) UEFI+SecureBoot

 
For BIOS booting (legacy), your USB stick must have a boot sector and a partition table. The partition table can be MBR or GPT.

 
For UEFI booting, your USB stick must have a GPT partition table. It must have one EFI partition. This is often the first or second partition, but it doesn’t have to be. It must have a partition type EFI, and it must be formatted with the EFI file system (which conveniently happens to be identical to vFat). Usually, UEFI disks also include a boot sector so they can be booted both ways.

 
For SecureBoot, your USB stick must be formatted for UEFI booting, plus it must be signed.

 
The easiest way to find out if your stick is UEFI capable is to boot it (on another system, of course). Then use the lsblk command to see how the partitions are mounted. If one of the partitions is mounted as /boot/EFI then that’s your EFI partition. If you only see /boot but not /boot/EFI then your stick is probably not UEFI capable.

 
The /boot/EFI directory usually contains various files with the .efi extension; these are the boot loaders that can be executed during boot. But that may be true even if there is no EFI partition, so the existence of .efi files is not a reliable indicator that the stick is UEFI-capable.

 
You can also use gdisk to check the GPT partition table.

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Rafael Shumaker <mailto:***@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 6:16 PM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: (no subject)

 


My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in my
old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it still
boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just now,
I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old laptop.
It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?

--
KPLUG-***@kernel-panic.org
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Kevin Keane Subscription]

I recall seeing that in some BIOS’ fast boot may mean “don’t check the USB ports, go straight to the hard disk” – even if you have USB in the boot sequence.

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Rafael Shumaker <mailto:***@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 6:50 PM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: Re: (no subject)

 


I don't have the BR writer plugged in unless I need to access a DVD or CD.

The USB stick with Knoppix does show up in the BIOS. But even though I tell
the BIOS to put it first in the boot sequence, nothing shows up from it on
the screen during boot. It skips the stick and goes to the second item in
the boot sequence, Windows, on the SSD. But the Knoppix boot stick still
works fine in the older laptop. I'm inclined to belief that it is an issue
about UEFI. I just don't know how to get around it.

I seem to recall something in the BIOS about fast boot. It may be that this
option is hiding any output about a problem with the boot stick?

If there is something in the BIOS that allows Legacy booting, I have not
seen it.

I want to use this machine, but would prefer not to touch Whendoze unless I
have to. I have used Knoppix for quite a while now, and like it. I have
also used Red Hat in the past, and liked it too.

As far as I recall, Knoppix does not concern itself with alternate boot
options. It pretty much assumes that whenever it is first in the boot
order, you must want it to be the one booting. Whether you boot it from a
CD, DVD, or USB stick, it assumes that if you don't want to boot from it,
then you will eject that CD, DVD, or USB stick before booting. Knoppix was
designed for booting from such media. In fact, last I knew, it performs
very badly if you install it to the hard drive.




On May 23, 2018 10:21, "Tony Su" <***@su-networking.com> wrote:

When you see your described problem, then depending on exactly what
you see and there probably <are> some kind of errors printed to the
screen,
- Your USB stick wasn't recognized, which might be due to various
things like recognizing an active partition (assuming MBR)
- Your grub entry on your USB stick doesn't point to a partition on
your hard drive successfully. Can be due to a very large number of
possible causes like drive wasn't mounted, partition labeling not
conformant, partition doesn't exist, looking at wrong drive, etc.
- UEFI and gpt may be an issue, YMMV.
- Try unplugging unnecessary devices like your BR writer, it may have
changed your system's disk order.

I'm not familiar using Knoppix to boot something, but it stands to
reason that you should start with booting your Knoppix entirely and
then inspecting what and how Knoppix can see.


Tony

Post by Rafael Shumaker
As stated from the beginning, though perhaps not clearly, I bought an
external blu-ray writer.
And, because of one suggestion here, I also bought an external HDD (1T).

Post by Rich Ernst
No, it's not the USB 2.0
You have to turn protected boot or whatever it is to let a windows
machine boot from something else entirely.
Does this system have a CD/DVD drive at all?
Also, you may have to fiddle with IDE/AHCI and MBR/UEFI to get it to
allow it to boot from the use drive.  Or any other drive, including
discs.
Rich

My new laptop sees the Knoppix USB boot stick (that I've been using in

my

Post by Rafael Shumaker

Post by Rich Ernst

old laptop) but won't boot from it. The [Esc] key during boot gets the
bios, where I can put the USB stick ahead of the Windows boot. But it

still

boots Windows. Of course Windows cannot recognize the format. And just

now,

I verified that the Knoppix bootup USB stick still boots up the old

laptop.

It couldn't be because the boot stick is USB 2.0 technology. Could it?
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[Kevin Keane Subscription]

One of the problem with torrents is that you are downloading copies of what others have downloaded already. Basically, your large download is chopped up into thousands of fragments, and your torrent client will go out and ask for those pieces from all of its peers, while advertising the pieces it already has. So your torrent client might have fragments 1 through 7687661, and fragments 7687663 through 9889111, and it is now frantically asking all the peers it can find “do you have fragment 7687662?” But it is entirely possible that *none* of the peers have this fragment, because those who *do* have it have completed their download and disconnected. That’s when you get a stall at 98%. The stall would persist until somebody who has the complete download (or the missing piece) pops up.

 
This problem is why it is considered polite to leave your bittorrent running long after your download completes.

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Rafael Shumaker <mailto:***@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 9:52 AM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: Re: Knoppix USB booting

 
That sounds good for now. I will get v8.1 as soon as I can. But I won't be
going through their torrent to get it. Both v8.1 and v8.2 are currently
stalled at around 98%. I don't understand why they won't complete.

On another front, I'm in the BIOS, and found something about legacy in
Advanced/USB Configuration. Legacy USB Support is Enabled. The only other
item here is USB Mass Storage Driver Support, which is also Enabled.

But under Boot Configuration, Fast Boot is also Enabled, though switching
now to Disabled. But that had no impact.

Under Security, there is the item Secure Boot. It has an item Secure Boot
Control, which is Enabled. Could this be part of the problem?

When first booting up, if I continually hit [Esc], I get the option to
select boot device. Of course, Windows Boot Manager is the first item
listed, despite being listed second in the boot sequence in the BIOS. But
the USB stick is listed second. While here, if I select the USB stick, the
screen blanks for a fraction of a second and comes right back to this menu.
(The third item in the menu is Enter Setup.)

Interesting side note: here, in this boot menu, the USB stick is listed as
"UEFI: Staples, Partition 1", even though it certainly is not UEFI. And in
the BIOS, the Boot Priority does indeed list this item first.

So even with Legacy support Enabled, and Fast boot Disabled, it STILL
refuses to boot the old KNOPPIX USB boot stick.


On May 27, 2018 22:29, "Gus Wirth" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

On 05/27/2018 06:06 PM, Gus Wirth wrote:
[snip]

Post by Gus Wirth
One thing to note is that the Knoppix 8.2 seems to be having some issues
with XWindows that I haven't figured out yet but it will boot to at
least a command line.

Based on some further testing I would recommend Knoppix 8.1 for the time
being. It has a slightly older kernel but that shouldn't make too much
of a difference. There is a problem with XWindows in 8.2 that I can't
resolve yet but 8.1 works fine and will give you the UEFI boot capability.


Gus


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[Tony Su]

Knoppix 8.1 and 8.2 are supposed to be latest versions.
Ordinarily, if the Project is substantial enough, it has its own
seeders which should avoid problems related to no seeders (with the
complete image).
You should run into seeding problems only with files that aren't
supported by large communities or old, unsupported files.

I'd take another look at whatever your torrent app is, you should make
sure whatever you choose that it verifies the checksum of <every>
individual chunk besides checksumming the entire file after it's
downloaded (read the project features and docs).

Tony



On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 10:29 PM, Kevin Keane Subscription

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
One of the problem with torrents is that you are downloading copies of what others have downloaded already. Basically, your large download is chopped up into thousands of fragments, and your torrent client will go out and ask for those pieces from all of its peers, while advertising the pieces it already has. So your torrent client might have fragments 1 through 7687661, and fragments 7687663 through 9889111, and it is now frantically asking all the peers it can find “do you have fragment 7687662?” But it is entirely possible that *none* of the peers have this fragment, because those who *do* have it have completed their download and disconnected. That’s when you get a stall at 98%. The stall would persist until somebody who has the complete download (or the missing piece) pops up.
This problem is why it is considered polite to leave your bittorrent running long after your download completes.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: Knoppix USB booting
That sounds good for now. I will get v8.1 as soon as I can. But I won't be
going through their torrent to get it. Both v8.1 and v8.2 are currently
stalled at around 98%. I don't understand why they won't complete.
On another front, I'm in the BIOS, and found something about legacy in
Advanced/USB Configuration. Legacy USB Support is Enabled. The only other
item here is USB Mass Storage Driver Support, which is also Enabled.
But under Boot Configuration, Fast Boot is also Enabled, though switching
now to Disabled. But that had no impact.
Under Security, there is the item Secure Boot. It has an item Secure Boot
Control, which is Enabled. Could this be part of the problem?
When first booting up, if I continually hit [Esc], I get the option to
select boot device. Of course, Windows Boot Manager is the first item
listed, despite being listed second in the boot sequence in the BIOS. But
the USB stick is listed second. While here, if I select the USB stick, the
screen blanks for a fraction of a second and comes right back to this menu.
(The third item in the menu is Enter Setup.)
Interesting side note: here, in this boot menu, the USB stick is listed as
"UEFI: Staples, Partition 1", even though it certainly is not UEFI. And in
the BIOS, the Boot Priority does indeed list this item first.
So even with Legacy support Enabled, and Fast boot Disabled, it STILL
refuses to boot the old KNOPPIX USB boot stick.
[snip]

Post by Gus Wirth
One thing to note is that the Knoppix 8.2 seems to be having some issues
with XWindows that I haven't figured out yet but it will boot to at
least a command line.

Based on some further testing I would recommend Knoppix 8.1 for the time
being. It has a slightly older kernel but that shouldn't make too much
of a difference. There is a problem with XWindows in 8.2 that I can't
resolve yet but 8.1 works fine and will give you the UEFI boot capability.
Gus
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