Is this list *really* this dead?

[Andrew P. Lentvorski]

I know this list is quiet, but two months without a single message?

-a

[David Brown]

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
I know this list is quiet, but two months without a single message?

This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
From what I can tell the message bounced around

sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

I saw a post from Robert Donovan that sat for about 3 weeks before
being delivered (I guess I should have looked closer at the headers
(my client seems to be showing the delivery date on that message for
some reason).

Thoughts?

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To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
From: "Andrew P. Lentvorski" <***@allcaps.org>
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 19:16:01 -0700
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Subject: Is this list *really* this dead?
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[Andrew P. Lentvorski]

Post by David Brown
This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.
From what I can tell the message bounced around
sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

Yeah, the 25 hours later was because I kicked Tracy when my test message
didn't hit the archives.  :)

-a

[Nandor Szots]

Does it surprise you that a bunch of kernel hackers are stuck in technology
deadlock? :)

Linux kernel development still largely happens on mailing lists. I just
subscribed to lkml as a test of a hosting service. It is about 1500-2000
messages a day.
David
*Date: *Thursday, April 26, 2018 at 6:02 AM
*Subject: *Re: Is this list *really* this dead?
Meanwhile the rest of the world has moved on to web forums. Mailing lists
are so 1999.

Post by David Brown
This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.
From what I can tell the message bounced around
sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

Yeah, the 25 hours later was because I kicked Tracy when my test message
didn't hit the archives. :)
-a
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Rich Ernst]

I like email lists better as I don't have to GO to something to review
messages, they're just there.

Meanwhile the rest of the world has moved on to web forums. Mailing lists
are so 1999.

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski

Post by David Brown
This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.
From what I can tell the message bounced around
sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

Yeah, the 25 hours later was because I kicked Tracy when my test message
didn't hit the archives. :)
-a
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Brad Beyenhof]

These days I tend to find that, on most forums, Syndication is Really Simple.

But what was wrong about 1999?
--
Brad Beyenhof . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://augmentedfourth.com
Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking
educated people seriously.
~ G.K. Chesterton, author (1874-1936)

Post by Rich Ernst
I like email lists better as I don't have to GO to something to review
messages, they're just there.

Meanwhile the rest of the world has moved on to web forums. Mailing lists
are so 1999.

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski

Post by David Brown
This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.
From what I can tell the message bounced around
sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

Yeah, the 25 hours later was because I kicked Tracy when my test message
didn't hit the archives. :)
-a
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Nandor Szots]

I dunno you wanted more life on this list. I knew that tell a bunch of
90ies techies that 90ies tech was crap now would cause some fun discussions
;).

Post by Brad Beyenhof
These days I tend to find that, on most forums, Syndication is Really Simple.
But what was wrong about 1999?
--
Brad Beyenhof . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://augmentedfourth.com
Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking
educated people seriously.
~ G.K. Chesterton, author (1874-1936)

Post by Rich Ernst
I like email lists better as I don't have to GO to something to review
messages, they're just there.

Meanwhile the rest of the world has moved on to web forums. Mailing

lists

Post by Rich Ernst

are so 1999.
On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 11:59 PM Andrew P. Lentvorski <

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski

Post by David Brown
This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.
From what I can tell the message bounced around
sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

Yeah, the 25 hours later was because I kicked Tracy when my test

message

Post by Rich Ernst

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
didn't hit the archives. :)
-a
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Tracy Reed]

Post by Brad Beyenhof
These days I tend to find that, on most forums, Syndication is Really Simple.

They killed Google reader. :( That was the best rss reader ever. I just
haven't done anything with RSS since.

[Bradley Beyenhof]

Post by Brad Beyenhof
These days I tend to find that, on most forums, Syndication is Really Simple.

They killed Google reader. :( That was the best rss reader ever. I just haven't done anything with RSS since.

It's convoluted, but free: I currently set IFTTT to check feeds and drop links into Pocket. The best part is applying tags to specific feeds, so my tags in Pocket function a bit like folders.

I've also used Pocket for a while as my bookmark/read-it-later service, so this use case works well for me.

Since gReader closed, I've also set up rss2email in cron on my Linux server, and I once used a service called FeedHuddler that basically does what I have now with an easier interface (except I had to pay for a subscription to Pro in order to add tags to feeds).
--
Brad Beyenhof . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://augmentedfourth.com
Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking
educated people seriously.
~ G.K. Chesterton, author (1874-1936)

[Brian W.]

I prefer email also so I can search locally later and not deal with ads,
logins, etc... Having said that this list was so dead for awhile I was
surprised to see the effort to revive the meetings and org.

Hope it goes well
Brian

Post by Brad Beyenhof

Post by Tracy Reed

Post by Brad Beyenhof
These days I tend to find that, on most forums, Syndication is Really

Simple.

Post by Tracy Reed
They killed Google reader. :( That was the best rss reader ever. I just

haven't done anything with RSS since.
It's convoluted, but free: I currently set IFTTT to check feeds and drop
links into Pocket. The best part is applying tags to specific feeds, so my
tags in Pocket function a bit like folders.
I've also used Pocket for a while as my bookmark/read-it-later service, so
this use case works well for me.
Since gReader closed, I've also set up rss2email in cron on my Linux
server, and I once used a service called FeedHuddler that basically does
what I have now with an easier interface (except I had to pay for a
subscription to Pro in order to add tags to feeds).
--
Brad Beyenhof . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://augmentedfourth.com
Without education, we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking
educated people seriously.
~ G.K. Chesterton, author (1874-1936)
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Urivan Flores Saaib]

As technology and new generations move forward, assuming that previous
technology because re-branded or hype-term usages and having a nice UI
is better, does not replace the basic feature of any web forum... to
notify via email if you got an update to your thread conversation :)

Web forums are good for rich content, otherwise I don't see the need to
spend time navigating to multiple URLs, create new credentials ( If you
use the same credentials for every account that is a SIN! ), fight with
discrepancy UI interfaces to achieve the filtering that I want, and they
never offer.

They want your info to sell it for ads! I though that was common
knowledge. :)

Can you imagine an app such as WhatsApp having such success requiring
users to go to a web portal to read their messages?

Cheers!

-Urivan

Meanwhile the rest of the world has moved on to web forums. Mailing lists
are so 1999.

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski

Post by David Brown
This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.
From what I can tell the message bounced around
sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

Yeah, the 25 hours later was because I kicked Tracy when my test message
didn't hit the archives. :)
-a
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Tracy Reed]

Meanwhile the rest of the world has moved on to web forums. Mailing lists
are so 1999.

No thanks. I much prefer my mail come to me rather than have to remember
to go check some web forum every day. But I suspect you're just
trolling.

[Frojon]

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski

Post by David Brown
This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.
From what I can tell the message bounced around
sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

Yeah, the 25 hours later was because I kicked Tracy when my test message
didn't hit the archives.  :)
-a

Thunderbird pulled Tracy's email sent March 20 "SDCS has money!..."
through my Cox connection the morning of April 25.

Most days I check that account once in the morning and a couple times
each evening.

Frojon Banwell

[Tracy Reed]

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
I know this list is quiet, but two months without a single message?

mailman on sparky was dead. Happens once a year on average. But yeah,
the list is so dead that when that happens nobody notices for quite some
time. Wish it weren't so but it is. Why don't some of you instigate some
flamewars or something? :)

[Andrew P. Lentvorski]

Post by Tracy Reed

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
I know this list is quiet, but two months without a single message?

mailman on sparky was dead. Happens once a year on average. But yeah,
the list is so dead that when that happens nobody notices for quite some
time. Wish it weren't so but it is. Why don't some of you instigate some
flamewars or something? :)

I guess one main question should be: Why does stuff just sort of float
around rather than *bounce* when mailman goes dead?

You, personally, sent several messages to the list, and, presumably,
they all just quietly got sucked up and then nothing got done with them.

-a

[Tracy Reed]

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
I guess one main question should be: Why does stuff just sort of float
around rather than *bounce* when mailman goes dead?

Because postfix delivers them into an on disk queue from which the
mailman daemon is supposed to pick them up. But sometimes the mailman
daemon dies so they just sit for ages until it gets restarted.

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
You, personally, sent several messages to the list, and, presumably,
they all just quietly got sucked up and then nothing got done with them.

Yep. :( I never thought to go back and check if they actually appeared
on the list becaue this issue happens rarely. We are in the process of
moving to a new server so hopefully this will be resolved. Although
we've been in the process for ages and moving mailman is one of the
least fun tasks remaining.

[N.J. Thomas]

Post by Tracy Reed
mailman on sparky was dead. Happens once a year on average. But yeah,
the list is so dead that when that happens nobody notices for quite
some time. Wish it weren't so but it is.

FWIW, I solved this problem once and for all by setting up "test" lists
on every Mailman instance I manage. I hit the list with a mail from cron
every few hours. The list delivers mail to a file, and I have nagios
check that the file is relatively new. It works great for catching stuff
like this.

Thomas

[Kevin Keane Subscription]

<baring my knuckles>What, you wanna talk IPv6?

 

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Tracy Reed <mailto:***@ultraviolet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 11:40 PM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: Re: Is this list *really* this dead?

 

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski
I know this list is quiet, but two months without a single message?

mailman on sparky was dead. Happens once a year on average. But yeah,
the list is so dead that when that happens nobody notices for quite some
time. Wish it weren't so but it is. Why don't some of you instigate some
flamewars or something? :)

--
Tracy Reed
http://tracyreed.org
Digital signature attached for your safety.

--
KPLUG-***@kernel-panic.org
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Kevin Keane Subscription]

People said that email was dead and obsolete for the last 15 years.

 
Web forums are so 2001. Many have tried to add an email interface, and often a very shitty one.

 
Most of the software I support (Blackboard is the biggest one, and a lot of scientific applications) has gone back to mailing lists.

 
One thing I would love to see for this mailing list is adding a [KPLUG] tag to the subject line. Makes it a lot easier to pick out from all kinds of other stuff.

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Nandor Szots <mailto:***@ntsj.com>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 1:58 AM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: Re: Is this list *really* this dead?

 


Meanwhile the rest of the world has moved on to web forums. Mailing lists
are so 1999.

Post by Andrew P. Lentvorski

Post by David Brown
This may be worth looking into, so I've pasted full headers below.
From what I can tell the message bounced around
sparkplug.kernel-panic.org and some allcaps.org machines which
finally decided to try delivering it to my mail server about 25 hours
later.

Yeah, the 25 hours later was because I kicked Tracy when my test message
didn't hit the archives.  :)
-a
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

--
KPLUG-***@kernel-panic.org
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Tracy Reed]

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
People said that email was dead and obsolete for the last 15 years.

Yep. I remember reading articles about how Facebook chat and other
things were going to replace email also. Yet I receive more email than
ever and it's not just spam.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Web forums are so 2001. Many have tried to add an email interface, and often a very shitty one.

Agreed.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
One thing I would love to see for this mailing list is adding a [KPLUG] tag to the subject line. Makes it a lot easier to pick out from all kinds of other stuff.

You don't sort it into its own separate folder? That's what I've always
done.

[Kevin Keane Subscription]

Different strokes for different folks. I only keep a single inbox with everything, and rely on search. Folders are too much work to set up, and too often the same email would fit into two or three different folders.

 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
From: Tracy Reed <mailto:***@ultraviolet.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:00 PM
To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <mailto:kplug-***@kernel-panic.org>
Subject: Re: Is this list *really* this dead?

 

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
People said that email was dead and obsolete for the last 15 years.

Yep. I remember reading articles about how Facebook chat and other
things were going to replace email also. Yet I receive more email than
ever and it's not just spam.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Web forums are so 2001. Many have tried to add an email interface, and often a very shitty one.

Agreed.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
One thing I would love to see for this mailing list is adding a [KPLUG] tag to the subject line. Makes it a lot easier to pick out from all kinds of other stuff.

You don't sort it into its own separate folder? That's what I've always
done.

--
Tracy Reed
http://tracyreed.org
Digital signature attached for your safety.

--
KPLUG-***@kernel-panic.org
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Rich Ernst]

This is the beauty of gmail's interface, no need to "sort" or move
items at all, just use search and labels for things searched for
regularly.

The few folks I've run into (end users, mostly) who were organized and
remember the "old" days of outlook where a big inbox would slow
Outlook down a ton, so put everything into appropriate folders, either
manually or through filters/rules, find the "one inbox" very counter
intuitive.

Of course, modern mail programs don't suffer from that slowdown. But
I agree that organizing can be a problem when an item could go into
two categories, and I knew at least one person who would actually
duplicate the emails so they could put them in more than one category.
Again, gmail avoids that, as do other modern email programs.

Rich

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Kevin Keane Subscription

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Different strokes for different folks. I only keep a single inbox with everything, and rely on search. Folders are too much work to set up, and too often the same email would fit into two or three different folders.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Is this list *really* this dead?

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
People said that email was dead and obsolete for the last 15 years.

Yep. I remember reading articles about how Facebook chat and other
things were going to replace email also. Yet I receive more email than
ever and it's not just spam.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Web forums are so 2001. Many have tried to add an email interface, and often a very shitty one.

Agreed.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
One thing I would love to see for this mailing list is adding a [KPLUG] tag to the subject line. Makes it a lot easier to pick out from all kinds of other stuff.

You don't sort it into its own separate folder? That's what I've always
done.
--
Tracy Reed
http://tracyreed.org
Digital signature attached for your safety.
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[Frojon]

Post by Rich Ernst
This is the beauty of gmail's interface, no need to "sort" or move
items at all, just use search and labels for things searched for
regularly.
The few folks I've run into (end users, mostly) who were organized and
remember the "old" days of outlook where a big inbox would slow
Outlook down a ton, so put everything into appropriate folders, either
manually or through filters/rules, find the "one inbox" very counter
intuitive.
Of course, modern mail programs don't suffer from that slowdown. But
I agree that organizing can be a problem when an item could go into
two categories, and I knew at least one person who would actually
duplicate the emails so they could put them in more than one category.
Again, gmail avoids that, as do other modern email programs.
Rich
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Kevin Keane Subscription

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Different strokes for different folks. I only keep a single inbox with everything, and rely on search. Folders are too much work to set up, and too often the same email would fit into two or three different folders.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Is this list *really* this dead?

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
People said that email was dead and obsolete for the last 15 years.

Yep. I remember reading articles about how Facebook chat and other
things were going to replace email also. Yet I receive more email than
ever and it's not just spam.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Web forums are so 2001. Many have tried to add an email interface, and often a very shitty one.

Agreed.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
One thing I would love to see for this mailing list is adding a [KPLUG] tag to the subject line. Makes it a lot easier to pick out from all kinds of other stuff.

You don't sort it into its own separate folder? That's what I've always
done.
--
Tracy Reed
http://tracyreed.org
Digital signature attached for your safety.
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

Could not even imagine going forward without my folders at home in
Thunderbird or my many many more folders at work in Outlook.

The relationships of the contents of a folder which has existed for ten
years or more cannot be gathered by a search.  Which is why many people
at work depend on me to retrieve information they have been unable to
find, or know I can find it much faster.

Frojon Banwell

[Rich Ernst]

Post by Frojon

Post by Rich Ernst
This is the beauty of gmail's interface, no need to "sort" or move
items at all, just use search and labels for things searched for
regularly.
The few folks I've run into (end users, mostly) who were organized and
remember the "old" days of outlook where a big inbox would slow
Outlook down a ton, so put everything into appropriate folders, either
manually or through filters/rules, find the "one inbox" very counter
intuitive.
Of course, modern mail programs don't suffer from that slowdown. But
I agree that organizing can be a problem when an item could go into
two categories, and I knew at least one person who would actually
duplicate the emails so they could put them in more than one category.
Again, gmail avoids that, as do other modern email programs.
Rich
On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Kevin Keane Subscription

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Different strokes for different folks. I only keep a single inbox with
everything, and rely on search. Folders are too much work to set up, and too
often the same email would fit into two or three different folders.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Is this list *really* this dead?

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
People said that email was dead and obsolete for the last 15 years.

Yep. I remember reading articles about how Facebook chat and other
things were going to replace email also. Yet I receive more email than
ever and it's not just spam.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
Web forums are so 2001. Many have tried to add an email interface, and
often a very shitty one.

Agreed.

Post by Kevin Keane Subscription
One thing I would love to see for this mailing list is adding a [KPLUG]
tag to the subject line. Makes it a lot easier to pick out from all kinds of
other stuff.

You don't sort it into its own separate folder? That's what I've always
done.
--
Tracy Reed
http://tracyreed.org
Digital signature attached for your safety.
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

Could not even imagine going forward without my folders at home in
Thunderbird or my many many more folders at work in Outlook.
The relationships of the contents of a folder which has existed for ten
years or more cannot be gathered by a search. Which is why many people at
work depend on me to retrieve information they have been unable to find, or
know I can find it much faster.

What would your company do if you got hit by a bus tomorrow and were
unable to retrieve that info?

With gmail and other excellent search/filtering capabilities, I don't
need to file my home insurance under home, AND insurance, I just
search for home and insurance and there it/they are.

I have over 85K of emails since I started using gmail ~9 years ago,
searches are simple and fast.

Only potential drawback, which could be alleviated with IMAP to a
local client, is I DO need that internet connection to access. But
since I, and most businesses, rely on having internet all the time
these days, at least here in SD, much less CA and elsewhere, I
certainly don't see that as a problem.

Rich

[David Brown]

Post by Rich Ernst
With gmail and other excellent search/filtering capabilities, I don't
need to file my home insurance under home, AND insurance, I just
search for home and insurance and there it/they are.
I have over 85K of emails since I started using gmail ~9 years ago,
searches are simple and fast.
Only potential drawback, which could be alleviated with IMAP to a
local client, is I DO need that internet connection to access. But
since I, and most businesses, rely on having internet all the time
these days, at least here in SD, much less CA and elsewhere, I
certainly don't see that as a problem.

I'm finding with modern gamil-type searching available, I use folders
significantly less than I used to. But there are a few things I find
labels useful for:

- High volume mailing lists. Things like the linux kernel mailing
list deliver a few thousand messages a day. I want this in a
separate folder/label not for searching, but so that I can decide
when to look at it, and that it isn't cluttering up my main
mailbox.

- Similarly, automatic notifications from things that aren't
actually that useful. E.g. github send a mail everytime someone
thinks about one of the projects I'm involved with. I ended up
turning that one off, git github, jira, and many others still like
to send out notifications. I like to have a specific time when I
go through these, and it is nice to keep them separate.

I guess what remains of folders is a tool for me to divide _when_ I
look at the messages. For finding them, I use search, but it is nice
to be able to divide them up.

I've also recently stopped using "archive" within gmail. It was kind
of nifty to see the empty inbox, but it only works meaningfully with
the inbox. "Archiving" in a label removes the label (which maybe I
should just get over). But more significantly, leaving them in the
inbox makes things play much better when I do use an imap client. It
is much easier for me to find the messages with them staying in one
place.

I switch between several ways of reading mail. Mutt is still there,
and pretty much mandatory for participating in many linux kernel
lists, where lots of editing is needed when replying (mutt, which
invokes vim to edit). I use an imap client for most of the viewing
(Outlook on the mac, believe it or not). And the web client for gmail
(or the tablet app) for times I need to do a more signifant search
than mutt or an imap client can do.

David

[Frojon]

Post by David Brown

Post by Rich Ernst
With gmail and other excellent search/filtering capabilities, I don't
need to file my home insurance under home, AND insurance, I just
search for home and insurance and there it/they are.
I have over 85K of emails since I started using gmail ~9 years ago,
searches are simple and fast.
Only potential drawback, which could be alleviated with IMAP to a
local client, is I DO need that internet connection to access. But
since I, and most businesses, rely on having internet all the time
these days, at least here in SD, much less CA and elsewhere, I
certainly don't see that as a problem.

I'm finding with modern gamil-type searching available, I use folders
significantly less than I used to.  But there are a few things I find
 - High volume mailing lists.  Things like the linux kernel mailing
   list deliver a few thousand messages a day.  I want this in a
   separate folder/label not for searching, but so that I can decide
   when to look at it, and that it isn't cluttering up my main
   mailbox.
 - Similarly, automatic notifications from things that aren't
   actually that useful.  E.g. github send a mail everytime someone
   thinks about one of the projects I'm involved with.  I ended up
   turning that one off, git github, jira, and many others still like
   to send out notifications.  I like to have a specific time when I
   go through these, and it is nice to keep them separate.
I guess what remains of folders is a tool for me to divide _when_ I
look at the messages.  For finding them, I use search, but it is nice
to be able to divide them up.
I've also recently stopped using "archive" within gmail.  It was kind
of nifty to see the empty inbox, but it only works meaningfully with
the inbox.  "Archiving" in a label removes the label (which maybe I
should just get over).  But more significantly, leaving them in the
inbox makes things play much better when I do use an imap client. It
is much easier for me to find the messages with them staying in one
place.
I switch between several ways of reading mail.  Mutt is still there,
and pretty much mandatory for participating in many linux kernel
lists, where lots of editing is needed when replying (mutt, which
invokes vim to edit).  I use an imap client for most of the viewing
(Outlook on the mac, believe it or not).  And the web client for gmail
(or the tablet app) for times I need to do a more signifant search
than mutt or an imap client can do.
David

Tried labels a few different times over the years and never liked the
method.  As has been said, "different strokes".  That is my primary message.

Our work Exchange does not require Internet to operate internally, and
if I was gone they would change my password and deal with it as they may.

As the administrator and dealing with our couple hundred (plus) users,
the vast majority still are stuck in the past using folders.

And yet, here we are.

Frojon Banwell

[Nandor Szots]

For those using GMail have you considered or tried moving to Inbox? I like
Inbox much better.

https://inbox.google.com

Post by Frojon

Post by David Brown

Post by Rich Ernst
With gmail and other excellent search/filtering capabilities, I don't
need to file my home insurance under home, AND insurance, I just
search for home and insurance and there it/they are.
I have over 85K of emails since I started using gmail ~9 years ago,
searches are simple and fast.
Only potential drawback, which could be alleviated with IMAP to a
local client, is I DO need that internet connection to access. But
since I, and most businesses, rely on having internet all the time
these days, at least here in SD, much less CA and elsewhere, I
certainly don't see that as a problem.

I'm finding with modern gamil-type searching available, I use folders
significantly less than I used to. But there are a few things I find
- High volume mailing lists. Things like the linux kernel mailing
list deliver a few thousand messages a day. I want this in a
separate folder/label not for searching, but so that I can decide
when to look at it, and that it isn't cluttering up my main
mailbox.
- Similarly, automatic notifications from things that aren't
actually that useful. E.g. github send a mail everytime someone
thinks about one of the projects I'm involved with. I ended up
turning that one off, git github, jira, and many others still like
to send out notifications. I like to have a specific time when I
go through these, and it is nice to keep them separate.
I guess what remains of folders is a tool for me to divide _when_ I
look at the messages. For finding them, I use search, but it is nice
to be able to divide them up.
I've also recently stopped using "archive" within gmail. It was kind
of nifty to see the empty inbox, but it only works meaningfully with
the inbox. "Archiving" in a label removes the label (which maybe I
should just get over). But more significantly, leaving them in the
inbox makes things play much better when I do use an imap client. It
is much easier for me to find the messages with them staying in one
place.
I switch between several ways of reading mail. Mutt is still there,
and pretty much mandatory for participating in many linux kernel
lists, where lots of editing is needed when replying (mutt, which
invokes vim to edit). I use an imap client for most of the viewing
(Outlook on the mac, believe it or not). And the web client for gmail
(or the tablet app) for times I need to do a more signifant search
than mutt or an imap client can do.
David

Tried labels a few different times over the years and never liked the
method. As has been said, "different strokes". That is my primary
message.
Our work Exchange does not require Internet to operate internally, and
if I was gone they would change my password and deal with it as they may.
As the administrator and dealing with our couple hundred (plus) users,
the vast majority still are stuck in the past using folders.
And yet, here we are.
Frojon Banwell
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[David Brown]

Post by Nandor Szots
For those using GMail have you considered or tried moving to Inbox? I like
Inbox much better.

I tried inbox for a little while. It was a nifty idea, but
unfortunately, it isn't close to feature comparable to the regular
gmail mailbox. The missing feature that really drove me crazy was the
lack of numbers showing me how many messages I have. It is pretty
worthless to have a list of folders of various mailing lists, and then
having to click on them one at a time to see if there are any messages
there.

Most settings require you to go back to the regular mailbox, and
eventually it just go annoying enough that I stopped using it.

It probably works ok for someone who doesn't have to follow
high-volume mailing lists.

David

[Nandor Szots]

The problem you are having has to do with mindset. Number of emails in
your inbox should be near or at 0. It took me about a month before I
became comfortable with the shift but once I got there mentally it was
staggeringly effective.

At work (Running teams of Software Engineers for Amazon), I get a *literal
ton* of email per day and this method allows me to
triage/respond/snooze/execute at a very high pace.

Give the GTD book a read and give it another go if you are open to change.
:)

https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0143126563/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=S9F51GYNYK13NTAE8BSW

Post by David Brown

Post by Nandor Szots
For those using GMail have you considered or tried moving to Inbox? I

like

Post by Nandor Szots
Inbox much better.

I tried inbox for a little while. It was a nifty idea, but
unfortunately, it isn't close to feature comparable to the regular
gmail mailbox. The missing feature that really drove me crazy was the
lack of numbers showing me how many messages I have. It is pretty
worthless to have a list of folders of various mailing lists, and then
having to click on them one at a time to see if there are any messages
there.
Most settings require you to go back to the regular mailbox, and
eventually it just go annoying enough that I stopped using it.
It probably works ok for someone who doesn't have to follow
high-volume mailing lists.
David
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[David Brown]

Post by Nandor Szots
The problem you are having has to do with mindset. Number of emails in
your inbox should be near or at 0. It took me about a month before I
became comfortable with the shift but once I got there mentally it was
staggeringly effective.
At work (Running teams of Software Engineers for Amazon), I get a *literal
ton* of email per day and this method allows me to
triage/respond/snooze/execute at a very high pace.
Give the GTD book a read and give it another go if you are open to change.
:)

I've read the book several times. Honestly, it is a book with some
great ideas, which are unfortunately, terribly presented.

Regardless, even GTD describes the need for contexts. I need to be
able to separate my email into the contexts that I work on them. You
are clearly doing that with work/personal email. I need more
divisions than that. There are times when working that I have to work
on something specific. I will still process and triage my main mail
as it comes in, but I have to set aside specific times that I work
through the messages in the various mailing lists. The mailing lists
take different mindsets, as well. Many I'm only superficially
involved, or only involved in parts of the discussions, and my reading
task there is more about looking for what is important to me. Having
that all jumbled with other projects would be inefficient, and
frankly, silly.

In generally, telling people they are doing time management "wrong"
isn't particularly effective. Everyone has to personalize it, and
approaches will often be radically different. Honestly, my approach
is closer to GTD than anyone I know. My primary inbox is generally
returned to zero _unread_ messages. Most other things end up in
OmniFocus. OmniFocus still doesn't map perfectly to my thinking, but
it works fairly well.

David

[Nandor Szots]

I never actually said that you are doing time management, or anything else
for that matter, wrong. You are free, of course, to read that into
whatever I said. What I did say is that you are approaching "Inbox" with
the wrong mindset based on the issues you are having with it. Maybe that
mindset will never work for you, and that is okay, I find it highly
effective.

For myself I found OmniFocus very hard to get into because I hate having 2
sources of truth. This is why I moved everything into my email. If I need
a note or a task or a reminder I just email it to myself and snooze it
until appropriate.

Sounds like what you are doing works for you, and that is great!

For those that haven't tried out Inbox I recommend you give it a go, it
works with your existing GMail account / emails so it is a pretty low
barrier to entry.

Post by David Brown

Post by Nandor Szots
The problem you are having has to do with mindset. Number of emails in
your inbox should be near or at 0. It took me about a month before I
became comfortable with the shift but once I got there mentally it was
staggeringly effective.
At work (Running teams of Software Engineers for Amazon), I get a *literal
ton* of email per day and this method allows me to
triage/respond/snooze/execute at a very high pace.
Give the GTD book a read and give it another go if you are open to change.
:)

I've read the book several times. Honestly, it is a book with some
great ideas, which are unfortunately, terribly presented.
Regardless, even GTD describes the need for contexts. I need to be
able to separate my email into the contexts that I work on them. You
are clearly doing that with work/personal email. I need more
divisions than that. There are times when working that I have to work
on something specific. I will still process and triage my main mail
as it comes in, but I have to set aside specific times that I work
through the messages in the various mailing lists. The mailing lists
take different mindsets, as well. Many I'm only superficially
involved, or only involved in parts of the discussions, and my reading
task there is more about looking for what is important to me. Having
that all jumbled with other projects would be inefficient, and
frankly, silly.
In generally, telling people they are doing time management "wrong"
isn't particularly effective. Everyone has to personalize it, and
approaches will often be radically different. Honestly, my approach
is closer to GTD than anyone I know. My primary inbox is generally
returned to zero _unread_ messages. Most other things end up in
OmniFocus. OmniFocus still doesn't map perfectly to my thinking, but
it works fairly well.
David
--
http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list

[David Brown]

Post by Nandor Szots
For those using GMail have you considered or tried moving to Inbox? I like
Inbox much better.

I also have a pet peeve about almost all modern email clients:
conversation view. Replies to messages are a tree (it is a directed
acyclic graph from messages to their followups). Older clients showed
this tree. The modern trend seems to be to just show a list of
replies.

Gmail is the worst. It doesn't even show the list, the messages are
just following each other in a long scrolling window. There isn't
even a nice way to see who replied without scrolling and hoping you
didn't miss a name. It is one of a handful of things that Outlook
does quite a bit better: it shows a list of messages in the preview
pane, that can be opened or closed.

But, none of the modern ones seem to acknowledge that the replies form
a tree, so there is no real clear way of knowing who replied to whom.

It is annoying that, as far as I can tell, Outlook just ignores the
In-Reply-To header entirely, and does matching on the subject, or
their own Thread-Id header that most other clients discard. At least
they finally put the In-Reply-To header in sent messages.

David

[Rich Ernst]

Post by Frojon

Post by David Brown

Post by Rich Ernst
With gmail and other excellent search/filtering capabilities, I don't
need to file my home insurance under home, AND insurance, I just
search for home and insurance and there it/they are.
I have over 85K of emails since I started using gmail ~9 years ago,
searches are simple and fast.
Only potential drawback, which could be alleviated with IMAP to a
local client, is I DO need that internet connection to access. But
since I, and most businesses, rely on having internet all the time
these days, at least here in SD, much less CA and elsewhere, I
certainly don't see that as a problem.

I'm finding with modern gamil-type searching available, I use folders
significantly less than I used to. But there are a few things I find
- High volume mailing lists. Things like the linux kernel mailing
list deliver a few thousand messages a day. I want this in a
separate folder/label not for searching, but so that I can decide
when to look at it, and that it isn't cluttering up my main
mailbox.
- Similarly, automatic notifications from things that aren't
actually that useful. E.g. github send a mail everytime someone
thinks about one of the projects I'm involved with. I ended up
turning that one off, git github, jira, and many others still like
to send out notifications. I like to have a specific time when I
go through these, and it is nice to keep them separate.
I guess what remains of folders is a tool for me to divide _when_ I
look at the messages. For finding them, I use search, but it is nice
to be able to divide them up.
I've also recently stopped using "archive" within gmail. It was kind
of nifty to see the empty inbox, but it only works meaningfully with
the inbox. "Archiving" in a label removes the label (which maybe I
should just get over). But more significantly, leaving them in the
inbox makes things play much better when I do use an imap client. It
is much easier for me to find the messages with them staying in one
place.
I switch between several ways of reading mail. Mutt is still there,
and pretty much mandatory for participating in many linux kernel
lists, where lots of editing is needed when replying (mutt, which
invokes vim to edit). I use an imap client for most of the viewing
(Outlook on the mac, believe it or not). And the web client for gmail
(or the tablet app) for times I need to do a more signifant search
than mutt or an imap client can do.
David

Tried labels a few different times over the years and never liked the
method. As has been said, "different strokes". That is my primary message.
Our work Exchange does not require Internet to operate internally, and if I
was gone they would change my password and deal with it as they may.
As the administrator and dealing with our couple hundred (plus) users, the
vast majority still are stuck in the past using folders.
And yet, here we are.

Labels (at least in gmail) are just a way that google lets folks who
insist on using folders. Not sure what's not to like about them.

re: "different strokes" - no, no, no, I'm right and you're wrong.
Nyah Nyah Nyah... :)

By the "suddenly you're gone" (should have said you were offered a
much better job at better wages, etc... :) reference, I didn't mean
folks couldn't get to your emails but they would have to work hard to
figure out exactly how/why everything is organized like it is. Vs.
just using search.

Rich